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[thedamian58c]

There's no LP song that uses the 7th string of the guitar, my question is why did they use a 7 string guitar to record Runaway and With You, and some live shows ?

Edited May 4, 2014 by TheDamian58C

[dark_master]

There's no LP song that uses the 7th string of the guitar, my question is why did they use a 7 string guitar to record Runaway and With You, and some live shows ?

Both With You and Runaway use the 7th string. Check Astat's tabs - they are the most accurate out there.

 

http://lplive.net/astat/Guitar_tabs/Hybrid_Theory/

[hahninator]

I also feel like for the purpose of the live guide, live performances of High Voltage should be referred to as "High Voltage (Live Version)," as that version even has some substantial differences to the 2000 studio version. I feel like they may have not completely "finished" the recording of the 2000 version once they realized it wouldn't be on the album (I always found it odd that there was hardly any guitar in the studio version but it's all over the live version), and the live version was the arrangement they had originally intended to use. That's just speculation on my part, though.

Live Version it is then. What's funny is that in the live guide in 2014 for the new version, I listened to all 3 versions and tried to come up with a way to accurately list it. I ended up with "Reprise Version; Live Beginning". I didn't know there were other differences like the guitar though. I will get it changed to Live Version. Good recommendation. For And One we listed it as Short Live Version; Wind Intro.

[Astat]

There's no LP song that uses the 7th string of the guitar, my question is why did they use a 7 string guitar to record Runaway and With You, and some live shows ?

All 7 strings were used on Runaway originally, although it isn't necessary for playing the song (there's one harmonic on the high E string, which can also be played on the B string). 7 strings were very much "in vogue" in the late 90s due to the success of Korn, and everybody was buying them. It's also entirely possible that Brad wrote other stuff on a 7-string in the early days that never ended up being used.

 

Plus, tuning a regular 6-string B to B requires some extra setup work, you have to re-cut the nut to accommodate the thicker string gauges (since you're essentially "moving over" each string from a 7-string set and leaving off the high E), and you have to adjust the truss rod quite a bit to account for how different the string tension is. Brad literally owned two guitars when they first started touring for Hybrid Theory, so I'm sure it was MUCH easier to just take out a 7-string with a stock setup.

[thedamian58c]

All 7 strings were used on Runaway originally, although it isn't necessary for playing the song (there's one harmonic on the high E string, which can also be played on the B string). 7 strings were very much "in vogue" in the late 90s due to the success of Korn, and everybody was buying them. It's also entirely possible that Brad wrote other stuff on a 7-string in the early days that never ended up being used.

 

Plus, tuning a regular 6-string B to B requires some extra setup work, you have to re-cut the nut to accommodate the thicker string gauges (since you're essentially "moving over" each string from a 7-string set and leaving off the high E), and you have to adjust the truss rod quite a bit to account for how different the string tension is. Brad literally owned two guitars when they first started touring for Hybrid Theory, so I'm sure it was MUCH easier to just take out a 7-string with a stock setup.

Well I thought that they don't use the 7th string since they use a 6 string guitar to play those songs on most of the live performances. Do they tune down a regular 6 string guitar then?

 

 

"7 strings were very much "in vogue" in the late 90s"

I would say that they weren't that much "in vogue" as they were responsible for the nu-metal sound.

[BrandonYancar]

Well I thought that they don't use the 7th string since they use a 6 string guitar to play those songs on most of the live performances. Do they tune down a regular 6 string guitar then?

 

 

"7 strings were very much "in vogue" in the late 90s"

I would say that they weren't that much "in vogue" as they were responsible for the nu-metal sound.

As far as I know, they've only originally used a 7 string Ibanez for Runaway and With You up until around the Meteora touring cycle. They've only used and recorded with a 7 string guitar for Hybrid Theory. There could be song ideas they've scrapped that actually needed all 7 strings, but we won't know. They now just use baritone/modified 6 string guitars for the 7 string tuning stuff.

[Geki]

Has Fort Minor ever been on Loveline? I know DBS & STPWCB have, that's why I am wondering.

[gorast]

How reliable is LPA's LP Wiki considered? I was browsing through it today and came across stuff like Session being confirmed to be an evolved version of the secret track from the HTEP, and that Carousel is "most likely" derived from So Far Away based solely on the chorus.

[Astat]

How reliable is LPA's LP Wiki considered? I was browsing through it today and came across stuff like Session being confirmed to be an evolved version of the secret track from the HTEP, and that Carousel is "most likely" derived from So Far Away based solely on the chorus.

It's awful in a way that I can't even sugar-coat. I considered going on there and editing a fuckton of stuff, but quickly realized that it'd be a completely futile effort.

 

Both of those examples are 100% false, by the way.

[gorast]

Alright, cool. I had a feeling, but I figured I'd throw it up here to confirm. And, considering you're the one confirming, it's pretty much case closed for me.

 

It's a shame, too - wikis can be really valuable tools, but if they get off on the wrong foot it becomes incredibly difficult to redeem them.

[[AndOne]]

I've made the same experience and share the same opinion, every time I came across it when I was researching stuff I stumbled upon wrong info. Just as an example: http://wiki.lpassociation.com/index.php/Hy...%28Re-issued%29

[Skipees]

http://wiki.lpassociation.com/index.php/Militia_EP

 

Not only that this release was a DVD and definitely not these tracks, now there's also "Special Edition" for it.

 

The problem with the LPA wiki, is that I'm not sure if they're taking the wrong information from Wikipedia or vice versa. But it's very misleading for a lot of new people, or for the ones who doesn't really know the real background of the band.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Minor_Militia_EP

[lpliveusername]

http://wiki.lpassociation.com/index.php/Militia_EP

 

Not only that this release was a DVD and definitely not these tracks, now there's also "Special Edition" for it.

 

The problem with the LPA wiki, is that I'm not sure if they're taking the wrong information from Wikipedia or vice versa. But it's very misleading for a lot of new people, or for the ones who doesn't really know the real background of the band.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Minor_Militia_EP

Someone is taking wrong info from the LPA wiki and adding them to wikipedia, turning both websites useless for LP fans. Really sad. I'd say this is the most reliable source for LP related stuff at the moment.

[gorast]

I never knew there was an index for all those guides - that's the real LP wiki right there.

[lpliveusername]

About the "how many songs were finished for MTM" thing, I just found this:

How many songs did you write?

 

We estimate somewhere between 100 and 150. Some were very rough and just in the demo form. About 30 got closer to the final form. We ended up recording 17 total. We put 10 of those, plus an intro, on the album.

 

Will any of the remaining songs see the light of day?

 

I think so. One of them was released as an iTunes exclusive, called "No Roads Left," and I think the other ones will eventually find their way out. We don't know exactly what we're going to do with them yet. We have four or five other songs that are kind of really good and almost done. So, I think so. A lot of them will probably never see the light of day. We're going to hide them and erase them, because they're horrible.

http://www.soundspike.com/story2/12493/-in...of-linkin-park/

[gorast]

I remember 17 being thrown around quite a bit before the album came out, but I don't know what the candidates for those last five (six?) tracks would be. I remember that being a popular topic here for a long time.

 

It's interesting how Wake isn't counted in that list.

[lpliveusername]

So I always questioned the "17 songs" as being the definitive number of tracks that were recorded for MTM, as every time I saw it mentioned was from fans. Turns out, I was probably right to think that:

 

http://www.lpassociation.com/forums/archiv...hp/t-23006.html

http://www.linkinparkforums.com/showthread.php?t=13578

 

The 17-song quote comes from an October 2006 interview that says they had narrowed things down to "17-ish" songs. That was still 3 months before final tracking was complete, and a while before What I've Done would have been brought into the mix. Of those "17-ish" songs, we have no way of knowing which ones were ultimately "finished" over the next 3 months, or exactly how many songs "17-ish" even was. And reading through those two threads following the initial quote, as usual, people took it and ran with it, and now we somehow have "Linkin Park recorded 17 songs for Minutes to Midnight and 12 made the album" as an assumed "fact" 7 years later.

 

There may be more Minutes to Midnight b-sides, there may not be. And if there are, there could be more than one. The bottom line is, we don't know EXACTLY how many songs from the Minutes to Midnight sessions reached "fully recorded and mixed" stage. It could be anywhere from 16 to 18 or 19.

Since Rob said "17 total" in 2007 (after the album was released), I think this is not another case of misinterpreted info after all.

Maybe there are more interviews where this number was mentioned.

 

I remember 17 being thrown around quite a bit before the album came out, but I don't know what the candidates for those last five (six?) tracks would be. I remember that being a popular topic here for a long time.

 

It's interesting how Wake isn't counted in that list.

I actually never thought of the fact that WID was written last minute for the album, most likely after they chose the 17 track that would make the album. Maybe we are actually missing 2 tracks that would make up the 17 track original idea?

"What I've Done" is one of the 17 tracks, but looks like "Wake" isn't.

So Geki was right, we are actually missing 2 tracks.

 

Thanks Astat, nice find. We might actually even have the MTM b-sides. ATL, NRL, WWDK & Blackbirds might have been the other tracks, possibly Qwerty, it may have still been considered in October of 2006 and when they started narrowing stuff down, decided to give it to us through LPU in December of 2006. But as you said, it could be anywhere from 16, 17, 18 or even 19 tracks as far as b-sides go. Maybe we can finally lay this whole ''complete MTM tracklist'' to rest now. I think we would have probably got the 'fina' MTM b-sides on LPU11, LPU12 or LPU13 if it were there, anyways.

Maybe the only reason we haven't got the missing tracks yet is because the band just forgot about them.

Remember how Mike didn't remember "Blue" existed until he found it on an old demo CD?

Or how he forgot "Universe" was actually finished and became "Resurrection"?

 

"I also always thought BITS sounded like the most "MTM-like" track on ATS as well..."

 

My recent theory is that (hear me out) maybe they had worked on BITS during MTM, and that is when the song idea was conceived and everything, but it was scrapped for some unknown reason and replaced with What I've Done. If I recall, What I've Done was the last song finished for the album. They both have the same chord progression, maybe they decided on which to choose so they don't have two eerily similar songs? And threw BITS into the pot for the following album. Just my opinion/question.

My personal theory is that the 17th song is "Ammosick," as we know that one got pretty far in the process, and was subsequently revisited during the A Thousand Suns sessions. It could even BE a song on A Thousand Suns, as we don't have working titles for a few tracks. Burning in the Skies (no, the working title was not "The Fog"), Wretches and Kings, and The Catalyst (no, the working title was not "Violent Lullaby") all fit that criteria, although we know The Catalyst was written later, and I believe Wretches was too due to the presence of the Electro-Harmonix HOG, which was not in LP's arsenal during the MTM sessions. I also always thought BITS sounded like the most "MTM-like" track on ATS as well...so yeah, that's my theory. I have nothing to back it up.

I agree with you 100% Astat, BITS did sound like it could have been a MTM track. Maybe that really is Ammosick. If I get a meet and greet this summer, I will ask Mike about Ammosick, maybe we can finally clear it all up with the whole 17 song thing.

If we ever get a chance to interview Mike, this would be a great question. If someone says yo there were 17 full songs, 12 on the album + NRL, WWDK, ATL, Blackbirds. What was the last one? Was it Ammosick? Then bam he will know what you mean and explain. A M&G would be a great chance to ask this too.

I'm guaranteed one in Camden, maybe I can ask.

I think we will never know the truth until we ask the band about it.

If any of you have the chance to ask them, please do it.

Maybe we will be lucky enough to get both the remaining songs and Ammosick on the next LPU CD.

 

Both Pretend to Be and Not Alone are confirmed to have been "started" during the MTM sessions and finished later. In the case of Not Alone, it originally had different lyrics that were scrapped for the ones written after the Haiti earthquake. However, it's not known if those original lyrics were in place at the time of MTM's release, they could have revised it more than once after the album came out.

Could you please show me where this information came from?

[gorast]

Wait, what's "Resurrection"?

[lpliveusername]

Wait, what's "Resurrection"?

[Astat]

Could you please show me where this information came from?

Not Alone - Making of Not Alone, track info from Mike. Doesn't specifically CALL the song a Minutes to Midnight demo, but they specify that it was a demo they had sitting around for a while and brought back into the fold. Guitars on Not Alone are Fender Stratocasters, which LP didn't use until Minutes to Midnight = MTM demo.

 

Pretend to Be = Common sense, really. If it was finished in 2008 and started before then like the band said...again, Fender Stratocasters = MTM demo.

 

The band wasn't doing a lot of demos while on the road in between MTM and ATS, they did that a lot for Meteora but not so much before/after MTM. They started doing it a lot again during the ATS touring cycle. In the case of Pretend to Be, if they finished it in 2008 they probably wouldn't have gone out of their way to mention that they "started" the song and then left it sitting aside for a while unless the release of MTM fell between the point they started and finished the song. Not Alone is SLIGHTLY more likely to have been started later, maybe during the period they were doing demos while recording New Divide, but again, why would they go out of their way to specify that there was an unusual "dormant" period for that demo if they didn't start it until around the time they were starting ATS demos (keep in mind, tracks like Robot Boy date back to the same timeframe as when they were working on New Divide). It had to have come from earlier than that, which means unless it was a random "road demo" from like 2008, it would have been started prior to MTM.

[Geki]

On Loveline 2010, Mike and Brad said it was from the MTM sessions specifically.

[hahninator]

I never knew there was an index for all those guides - that's the real LP wiki right there.

Oh man I wish I could say what I want to say right now, but wait until this weekend :D You're about to see an index for that stuff!

 

I commend LPA for making a wiki - we were about to launch one at almost the exact same time but when they put theirs up we scrapped ours because we thought people would see it as a "copy" move. They beat us to the punch (barely) but the weakness with theirs is that EVERYONE can edit their stuff.

 

We are about to tackle the fact that the index/guides on LPL are stuck in the forums

[lpliveusername]

...

Nice to know that about the guitars they used. Thanks!

On Loveline 2010, Mike and Brad said it was from the MTM sessions specifically.

Thanks!

I've found a download link to the interview on LPAssociation. It was split into 5 parts. Part 2 was the only one I couldn't download (file was deleted). I think that was the part where they talked about "Not Alone".

Do you have it?

[Skipees]

I've found a download link to the interview on LPAssociation. It was split into 5 parts. Part 2 was the only one I couldn't download (file was deleted). I think that was the part where they talked about "Not Alone".

Do you have it?

Click.

[lpliveusername]

Click.

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