Linkin Park Sued by Kyle Christner Seeking Royalties on ‘More Than 20 Songs’

[JZLP-Benningstrong]

A bass player who claims he recorded numerous songs with Linkin Park back in 1999 has filed a lawsuit against the Grammy-winning group, seeking credit and unpaid royalties.

 

Kyle Christner says he never received “a penny” for his work, so he’s asking a federal judge to step in and sort out ownership and authorship of more than 20 disputed songs, according to the complaint filed in Los Angeles Wednesday and obtained by Rolling Stone.

 

At the center of the lawsuit is a claim that one of the band’s managers contacted Christner last April to say the bass player was owed royalties for three demos and the six-song Hybrid Theory EP that was included in the rap-metal group’s 20th anniversary box set released in 2020, which commemorated their landmark 2000 studio album, also titled Hybrid Theory.

 

The box set included the Hybrid Theory EP, which the group self-released in 1999 with Christner, and other rare and previously unreleased tracks, some listed as “forgotten demos.” One such demo titled “Could Have Been,” has been viewed nearly a million times on YouTube since its release three years ago, the lawsuit stated.

 

When Christner went back and reviewed all the archival material in the box set, he concluded his work appears on “more than twenty songs,” the complaint read. Christner said he reported his findings back to the management company, Machine Shop Entertainment, but the director who initially reached out “went dark” after acknowledging receipt of his letter.

 

The musician said he considered himself a member of the band back in 1999 and even played with Linkin Park at a showcase for Warner Records Inc. that ultimately led to a record deal.

 

According to the lawsuit, the band’s other members “abruptly” informed Christner he was cut from the band in October 1999. He never got an explanation for the decision, he claimed.

 

Still, Linkin Park co-founder Mike Shinoda complimented Christner during a Twitch stream after the 2020 release of “Could Have Been,” describing his bass solo on the track as “gnarly,” the lawsuit stated.

 

Christner alleged other songs in the box set that feature his work are “She Couldn’t,” “Chair,” “Blue” and “Step Up.”

“In fact, Christner appears to have played on at least tracks 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 of Forgotten Demos, tracks 1, 2, 7, 13, 14, 16, 17 of LPU Rarities, and track 7 of B-Side Rarities, as well as the Hybrid Theory EP,” the lawsuit claimed, referring to CD groupings in the box set.

The bassist further alleged he helped compose many of Linkin Park’s songs during the band’s early beginnings. He asked the court to determine who authored and owns the disputed songs and for an accounting of all the profits generated by the works. Christner also requested payment for back royalties, interest, and attorney’s fees.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/linkin-park-sued-bassist-royalties-1234874421/amp/

 

[gorast]

Quote

Like, what would Kyle's goal be in not clearing CHB? He'd know he has zero leverage to demand a bigger cut for that song, so it's take whatever Warner offers or nothing, you know?

 I posted this three years ago when Mike mentioned how he wasn't sure if CHB would make the cut based on Kyle being the bassist for it - guess I was wrong, lol.

 

I don't want to pay five bucks to pull the text of the complaint out of the LA County records, but I hope someone else does, because I'm very interested in seeing what his actual argument is. How formalized were the band's affairs when he was with them in 1999? He's not listed as a co-writer on any of those songs - would he be entitled to royalties simply for being a performer on them? That feels like it would need to be dictated by an agreement on paper, and I doubt they were doing anything like that before getting signed to Warner.

 

The most likely outcome, pure spitballing, is a settlement to shut him up, but it's intriguing regardless.

[bloodbath]

IF Mike was aware that Kyle wasn't being properly credited for his job, since he's a control freak, then what a dumb move by him, believing that the band was smarter than anyone and Kyle wouldn't notice. 

 

The funniest part is that this page might have started the fire without ever know or wanting it. 

 

But in the end, if they lose the lawsuit, LP is a wealthy band, they'll just pay him and move on. No big deal for them, but an opportunity to do things right

[JZLP-Benningstrong]

whats is really weird is that the band actually contacted Kyle about Could Have 

I wonder why he accepted the track to be released? that was the perfect moment to give his permission and also ask for royalties.

 

Probably they thought that they could pay him with honor.

 

He's not a fan he was a band member for a brief moment and he deserves respect and obviously they need to pay him.

Edited November 13, 2023 by JZLP-NaughtyNottingham

[Justin]

39 minutes ago, bloodbath said:

IF Mike was aware that Kyle wasn't being properly credited for his job, since he's a control freak, then what a dumb move by him, believing that the band was smarter than anyone and Kyle wouldn't notice. 

 

Mike is a control freak, sure, but that applies more to the band's image and music and overall presentation. He doesn't control the payroll of Warner Records and it wouldn't have been Mike's job to clear everything up financially with Kyle in preparation for HT20's release. Linkin Park is not an independent band. They are signed to Warner, and Warner has people who are meant to take care of that stuff in order to protect the company from potential legal issues like the one they're now facing.

 

If the goal was to not acknowledge or downplay Kyle's contributions to the band in order to make sure he doesn't get paid, which would be a super dick move considering the fact that we're talking about a percentage of a few tracks of HT20 and nothing on HT itself, then Mike wouldn't have openly discussed Kyle multiple times on Twitch in 2020 including talking about specific parts that Kyle wrote and recorded on songs that made it onto HT20.

 

He'll probably accept a settlement from Warner long before it goes to an actual trial.

[hahninator]

There is so much about this that we don't even know. Kyle has never been advertised as being a full-time band member. Nor did he sign a large contract with them. So, was the band being kind by offering some money? If he isn't a songwriter, he may get some performance credit money from the band. He's trying to claim he was a songwriter. That's going to be pretty hard to prove either way.

 

It's all going to come down to who has the best lawyers. Warner has a massive legal team. In the end, they may just pay him to shut him up and make this go away.

 

There is too much buried in the details of what happened with the band in 1999 with him to know exactly who is entitled to what, hence why this situation is now a legal matter. The fans nor likely Kyle himself probably even know what the full deal is here.

 

What stuck out to me is - he claims he's on She Couldn't...?

[lpliveusername]

35 minutes ago, hahninator said:

What stuck out to me is - he claims he's on She Couldn't...?

I think what happened here is that he looked at all the demos dated as being from 1999 and just decided he played on them all. This is the result of Kyle not knowing the band's material and not having any Linkin Park fan to help him. He lists songs that are entirely programmed beats and left out songs on which I'm pretty sure he is the one playing bass (they originated from the same disc as 'Blue' after all). The band mistakenly releasing songs recorded in 1999 as "1998 demos" surely made it harder for him. Then we have 'Esaul' and 'Rhinestone,' two Xero songs from 1998 with Mark Wakefield on vocals, which were recorded before he even joined the band. He might have just remembered playing those songs and didn't bother to actually listen to them since there were versions of those same songs with Chester on vocals on the LPU Rarities disc. Despite that he only listed one demo version of 'Points Of Authority' for whatever reason. Pretty sloppy work. Not to mention there's a potential video with him playing bass in that collection, which isn't listed in any tracklists due to it being a hidden feature.

 

That being said, it was a huge oversight not crediting Kyle for the LPU Rarities disc, the Frat Party DVD, or even the Hybrid Theory EP. I mean, his name was literaly in the original pressing of the EP and the article says the Linkin Park team wanted to pay him for the tracks on the EP. So why leave his name out on the HT20 vinyl? Not only that, they should had contacted him before releasing anything, not after the fact.

[RYG4R]

Who?

[Stranger]

40 minutes ago, LPFan02 said:

Coming from me Geki on this. 
 

IMO, the Hybrid Theory box set was a mess. Meteora was done much better. 
 

Honestly, nothing from Xero or Hybrid Theory should have been included. They aren’t the same band as Linkin Park. Linkin Park’s first official release was what, the One Step Closer single? Or the album?  All of the bonus tracks should have just been the stuff from the singles of the era and all that, as well as the PR02 tracks that ended up on Meteora. I don’t even understand why people care about Xero or Hybrid Theory shit. It’s all garbage. Linkin Park is Linkin Park, that’s when they officially became Linkin Park and started releasing stuff. We don’t need demos from before they were Linkin Park because what’s the point? Not even the same band. And fans never understood this.  Xero and Hybrid Theory are not the same band as Linkin Park. 
 

Linkin Park is the 6 guys we all knew. That released One Step Closer as a single and then the album and took the world by storm. 
 

I just think they could have done the Hybrid Theory set much better. The demos we got were very strange. Should have been Linkin Park demos from 2000 if anything, like those songs Jeff Blue mentioned. But instead we got very weird tracks like Dialate and Could Have Been, and Esaul with Mark. All that weird shit that nobody even likes. At least I don’t. Anything Linkin Park that doesn’t have Chester does not interest me at all. 
 

At the end of the day this will probably be a big thing. Just Kyle wanting money, probably a scumbag. But LP shouldn’t have been so sloppy with the HT set. The Meteora set was much better. 

 

you must be delulu when typing this. without XERO or Hybrid Theory, LP wouldnt exists. that's why those demos included in the boxset/Forgotten Demos. Demos from those eras really shows how LP begin to start. "All that weird shit that nobody even likes", it's just you Geki. you're worshiping MTM so hard till you lost the interests. that sucks man.

[Stranger]

37 minutes ago, LPFan02 said:

Anybody who has a problem with Shinoda has a problem with me. Mike and Chester were the Gods of my life. People shouldn’t be coming at Mike like he did something wrong. Like who gives a fuck about bass players that no one even knows about. He played some bass on some shit before they even had a debut album. Everything before a band’s debut album is bullshit. Everyone knows. This dude is just a crybaby who wants money. Mike should know that the only people who had his back were SOB. And Brad and shit. All these other people, workers for Warner, they’re all shit. 

 

while i agree bout Kyle but pre-LP is a historical moment for LP itself. im sure he want those money now because of something. maybe he got something to pay or shit. but to say pre-LP stuff is shit, totally disagree with that Geki.

[bloodbath]

46 minutes ago, LPFan02 said:

It is. It just shouldn’t have been included in the box set IMO. They could have done some kind of separate release, maybe in collaboration with Jeff Blue, at the time.

 

IMO, the whole Xero and Hybrid Theory band era is separate from Linkin Park. I know Chester was the singer in Hybrid Theory/Platinum Lotus Foundation. Was he in Xero for a very short time or no? He joined in 1999, March. Were they Xero 818 at this time? I don’t remember. 
 

But I just think the whole past of the band is so different from Linkin Park. I guess yes, it is all the same music, same band, just different names. But this is where I think the whole ‘’Linkin Park brand’’ thing that the band was trying to make happen in the 2010’s is important. Around that time Mike made that famous LP grey t shirt right? The one that said established in 1998, Los Angeles. I have like 3 of those shirts in my basement. But yet in reality, they formed in 1996. 1996 is the year I would say is the birth of Linkin Park, the earliest shit was then, the Deftest demo and shit. 
 

Idk I just think ‘’Linkin Park’’ was the the 6 guys we knew, Mike, Chester, Brad, Rob, Joe and Phoenix. I never have thought of Linkin Park as having other members, because in my mind, Xero and Hybrid Theory were a different band basically. Idk. It’s all so complicated. 
 

I just wish the box set was done better. They could have refined it more. And also I guess they should have credited Kyle. But I do think he is just trying to get money out of them. A lot of bands have this sort of shit happen when they become legacy acts. 
 

 

Go home, you're drunk 

[SardonicallyParanoid]

11 hours ago, lpliveusername said:

I mean, his name was literaly in the original pressing of the EP and the article says the Linkin Park team wanted to pay him for the tracks on the EP. So why leave his name out on the HT20 vinyl?

As far as I'm aware, it was the re-release in which Dave plays bass, no? I could be severely wrong in this but I swear the rereleased pressing had Dave re-record the bass for those tracks or some shit. In which case, they wouldn't have been viable for any performance royalties, I don't believe. 

[lpliveusername]

31 minutes ago, SardonicallyParanoid said:

As far as I'm aware, it was the re-release in which Dave plays bass, no? I could be severely wrong in this but I swear the rereleased pressing had Dave re-record the bass for those tracks or some shit. In which case, they wouldn't have been viable for any performance royalties, I don't believe. 

No, the bass is the same. They didn't change any of the songs besides remastering the audio. The LPU reissue is just a little louder than the original 1999 version. That's the only difference.

 

5 hours ago, LPFan02 said:

Linkin Park is the 6 guys we all knew. That released One Step Closer as a single and then the album and took the world by storm.

2 hours ago, LPFan02 said:

Idk I just think ‘’Linkin Park’’ was the the 6 guys we knew, Mike, Chester, Brad, Rob, Joe and Phoenix. I never have thought of Linkin Park as having other members, because in my mind, Xero and Hybrid Theory were a different band basically. Idk. It’s all so complicated.

You do realize that Phoenix wasn't a member of the band when Hybrid Theory was recorded, right? He doesn't play in any song from that album. The band that released One Step Closer was Mike, Brad, Chester, Joe, Rob and Scott. You can even see Scott in the music video and he is credited for bass on the song.

[Trumtram]

After seeming much more level-headed a couple months back, Geki regressed to his former self. How sad and unfortunate. Wish you the best, still!

On topic: I'm with the majority here, compensate Kyle for his contributions.

[Kirstie]

Surely WB will just throw some money at him and pay him to shut up and fuck off?

 

Isn't this just a drop in the ocean of the LP business machine?

[LPLStaff]

4 hours ago, Trumtram said:

On topic: I'm with the majority here, compensate Kyle for his contributions.

 

Isn't it a matter of songwriting credits vs performance credits and the latter is not guaranteed based on what was done at the time? Was LP just trying to be kind and extend a hand out of kindness to offer him something? He for sure is not a legitimate songwriter on any of these songs. Is he truly entitled to anything at all on these? Maybe not - seriously. The case will be interesting to follow. But one thing is for sure, what he is claiming in his lawsuit on specific songs... that information is not correct. Likewise, LP may have been incorrect in what they claimed he played on too. Have not dug into the exact songs yet. LP is likely to be more correct than Kyle is, though, just because they are the actual band lol

[LPsMart]

Didn't he claim on the interview you guys did, that he in fact was not on the HTEP? That Brad had re-recorded the bass way simpler for the eventual release?

This guy is a mess. Has been in the interview, still is with this stuff. Like sure he played on Chair, I can so hear him go hard on that bass.

I would've wanted him to have royalties but this is plain nonsense. If you go to court, do -like- a little research before claiming something that can obviously not be true (pointing at Chair ffs). If we wouldn't know better I would say he did the car alarm on that track, which is also absent because it isn't fcking part of the demo. 1999 is a sht date anyway, when Part of Me had been around earlier.

Okay I think I'm raging too confidently but c'mon what is this guy's problem?

[Legend]

Quote

 

  13 hours ago, LPFan02 said:

Anybody who has a problem with Shinoda has a problem with me. 

 

 

*Legend shakes in his boots violently.*

*The world joins in the shaking of their boots violently in fear of Geki*

[lpliveusername]

4 hours ago, LPsMart said:

Didn't he claim on the interview you guys did, that he in fact was not on the HTEP? That Brad had re-recorded the bass way simpler for the eventual release?

To be fair, he claimed his bass solo was removed from Could Have Been too and he was proved wrong.

 

4 hours ago, LPsMart said:

I would've wanted him to have royalties but this is plain nonsense. If you go to court, do -like- a little research before claiming something that can obviously not be true (pointing at Chair ffs).

Yeah, he definitely hurt his case with his nonsensical list. He should had took the time to actually listen to the music as I'm pretty sure there are plenty of demos with him in there, just not some of the demos he is claiming.

[bloodbath]

How the currents have changed, from "he's right to claim those royalties", to "he's gonna lose in court, has no idea what he's talking about".

[Rockter]

I'm just surprised about how he couldn't even be bothered to listen to the songs that he claimed he was a part of. Something like that would be a bare minimum and he couldn't even do that

[Justin]

Between Kyle claiming he played bass on some songs that literally don't even have live bass, LP labeling their demos with the wrong years, and Mike not being able to clearly remember any of this to begin with, there's a good chance they give Kyle a settlement and it doesn't go to court. It's too messy.

[Stranger]

44 minutes ago, Justin said:

Between Kyle claiming he played bass on some songs that literally don't even have live bass, LP labeling their demos with the wrong years, and Mike not being able to clearly remember any of this to begin with, there's a good chance they give Kyle a settlement and it doesn't go to court. It's too messy.

 

i rather the band not giving anything to him. why after 20 fkin years, he started to claiming all of the those royalties? surely he's desperate enough to make this bold move. Scott Koziol > Kyle

[lpliveusername]

So here's what he is claiming he played on:

 

Hybrid Theory EP
1. Carousel
2. Technique (Short) No live bass
3. Step Up
4. And One
5. High Voltage
6. Part Of Me

 

B-Side Rarities
7. Step Up (1999 Demo) Exactly the same as the Hybrid Theory EP version

 

LPU Rarities
1. In The End (Demo) Different bass line from the album version
2. Dedicated (1999 Demo)
7. Esaul ("A Place For My Head" Demo) Same instrumental as the 1998 version with Mark Wakefield and Dave Farrell
13. Forgotten (Demo) Same instrumental as the 1998 version with Mark Wakefield and Dave Farrell
14. Sad ("By Myself" Demo 1999) No live bass
16. Blue (1998 Unreleased Hybrid Theory Demo) Actually from 1999
17. Chair (1999 "Part of Me" Demo) No live bass

 

Forgotten Demos
2. Pictureboard Same instrumental as the 1998 version with Mark Wakefield and Dave Farrell
3. She Couldn't
4. Could Have Been
6. Rhinestone (Xero Demo) Recorded in 1998 with Mark Wakefield and Dave Farrell
7. Esaul (Xero Demo) Recorded in 1998 with Mark Wakefield and Dave Farrell
8. Stick N Move (Demo)
9. Carousel (Demo)
10. Points Of Authority (Demo)
11. Crawling (Demo)
12. SuperXero (By Myself Demo)

 

 

Keep in mind that Kyle joined the band in early 1999, before Chester. The earliest demo recorded with Chester on vocals mentioned in Jeff Blue's book dates from May 1999 and included (among other songs) Blue, Could Have Been, Rhinestone ("Forgotten" demo), Esaul and Pictureboard. Another demo from the end of May 1999 included "Untitled (It Doesn't Matter)" ("In The End" demo) and a demo called "Flower" which, according to Jeff, became She Couldn't.

 

They entered the studio with Andrew Murdock to record the Hybrid Theory EP in June 1999.

 

Jeff's book also mentions a 9-track demo CD dating from the week of August 16, 1999 which included versions of Untitled ("In The End" demo), Points Of Authority, Super Xero and "I Hate You/Crawling" (same version included in the Forgotten Demos disc). Kyle was only fired from the band around October 1999 when they had secured (but not yet signed) the deal with Warner.

 

 

 

And here's what Kyle left out:

 

LPU Rarities
5. Points Of Authority (Demo) Earlier version when compared to the Forgotten Demos version
9. Slip (1998 Unreleased Hybrid Theory Demo) Actually from 1999
11. So Far Away (Unreleased 1998) Actually from 1999

 

Frat Party At The Pankake Festival
Esaul (1999) Unlisted easter egg

 

 

Originally released on LPU Eleven, Mike's notes about Slip said that this recording of the song originated from the same batch of songs as Blue and that they were among the first songs recorded with Chester. So Far Away has vocals by Chester, so it can't be from 1998.

 

The rehearsal video of Esaul shows the band performing a version of the song very similar to the Xero version, so it must had been filmed right after Chester joined the band. While some of the band members are out of frame in the video (you can only see the head and maybe part of the neck of the bass), the bass player can only be Kyle.

 

On 11/14/2023 at 11:23 PM, bloodbath said:

How the currents have changed, from "he's right to claim those royalties", to "he's gonna lose in court, has no idea what he's talking about".

The way I see it, both statements are true. lol

 

On 11/15/2023 at 12:57 AM, Stranger said:

i rather the band not giving anything to him. why after 20 fkin years, he started to claiming all of the those royalties? surely he's desperate enough to make this bold move. Scott Koziol > Kyle

Listen to our interview. He didn't even know Linkin Park had been releasing demos he recorded with them for 20 years. lol

[NJPLP]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:01 PM, lpliveusername said:

So here's what he is claiming he played on:

 

Hybrid Theory EP
1. Carousel
2. Technique (Short) No live bass
3. Step Up
4. And One
5. High Voltage
6. Part Of Me

 

B-Side Rarities
7. Step Up (1999 Demo) Exactly the same as the Hybrid Theory EP version

 

LPU Rarities
1. In The End (Demo) Different bass line from the album version
2. Dedicated (1999 Demo)
7. Esaul ("A Place For My Head" Demo)
13. Forgotten (Demo)
14. Sad ("By Myself" Demo 1999) No live bass
16. Blue (1998 Unreleased Hybrid Theory Demo) Actually from 1999
17. Chair (1999 "Part of Me" Demo) No live bass

 

Forgotten Demos
2. Pictureboard
3. She Couldn't
4. Could Have Been
6. Rhinestone (Xero Demo) Recorded in 1998 with Mark Wakefield and Dave Farrell
7. Esaul (Xero Demo) Recorded in 1998 with Mark Wakefield and Dave Farrell
8. Stick N Move (Demo)
9. Carousel (Demo)
10. Points Of Authority (Demo)
11. Crawling (Demo)
12. SuperXero (By Myself Demo)

 

 

Keep in mind that Kyle joined the band in early 1999, before Chester. The earliest demo recorded with Chester on vocals mentioned in Jeff Blue's book dates from May 1999 and included (among other songs) Blue, Could Have Been, Rhinestone ("Forgotten" demo), Esaul and Pictureboard. Another demo from the end of May 1999 included "Untitled (It Doesn't Matter)" ("In The End" demo) and a demo called "Flower" which, according to Jeff, became She Couldn't.

 

They entered the studio with Andrew Murdock to record the Hybrid Theory EP in June 1999.

 

Jeff's book also mentions a 9-track demo CD dating from the week of August 16, 1999 which included versions of Untitled ("In The End" demo), Points Of Authority, Super Xero and "I Hate You/Crawling" (same version included in the Forgotten Demos disc). Kyle was only fired from the band around October 1999 when they had secured (but not yet signed) the deal with Warner.

 

 

 

And here's what Kyle left out:

 

LPU Rarities
5. Points Of Authority (Demo) Earlier version when compared to the Forgotten Demos version
9. Slip (1998 Unreleased Hybrid Theory Demo) Actually from 1999
11. So Far Away (Unreleased 1998) Actually from 1999

 

Frat Party At The Pankake Festival
Esaul (1999) Unlisted easter egg

 

 

Originally released on LPU Eleven, Mike's notes about Slip said that this recording of the song originated from the same batch of songs as Blue and that they were among the first songs recorded with Chester. So Far Away has vocals by Chester, so it can't be from 1998.

 

The rehearsal video of Esaul shows the band performing a version of the song very similar to the Xero version, so it must had been filmed right after Chester joined the band. While some of the band members are out of frame in the video, the bass player can only be Kyle.

 

The way I see it, both statements are true. lol

 

Listen to our interview. He didn't even know Linkin Park had been releasing demos he recorded with them for 20 years. lol

Did Kyle truly play on the Hybrid Theory demo of "Stick N Move"? I always thought that that specific demo dates back to March 2000, based off the notes from Rob Bourdon about it in Hybrid Theory 20 book.

Quote

"When we finally had the chance to go into the studio in early 2000, I think we had 2 weeks to track all the instruments for vocals. (It may have been shorter.) There was a song that we all wanted to let go of called Stick N Move. Our producer Don Gilmore insisted we keep the track. He kept on saying that there was something great about it and asked us to please just try recording it. We recorded just the instrumental and left it with Mike and Chester to rewrite the melody and lyrics and that song became Runaway."

Not only that, but there's also the fact that "Stick N Move" is listed twice as a part of the songs that Rob tracked drums for at NRG from March 14-17 in 2000 in Jeff Blue's 'One Step Closer: From Xero To #1: Becoming Linkin Park' book.

 

March 2000 would have been 5 months after Kyle was fired from the band (around October 1999).

Edited January 5 by NJPLP