Linkin Park Sued by Kyle Christner Seeking Royalties on ‘More Than 20 Songs’

[NJPLP]

2 hours ago, lpliveusername said:

We discussed it in the LPLive group and came to the same conclusion. A lot of people here seem to think the same too. I guess that settles it. The versions of Esaul (from LPU Rarities), Pictureboard (from Forgotten Demos) and Rhinestone (LPU Rarities) with Chester were all recorded with Phoenix, not Kyle. He surely played those songs at rehearsals, showcases and live shows, just not in the studio versions on HT20, which is what he is claiming.

 

Are there any songs without live bass that I left out of my list? Dedicated? She Couldn't? Step Up? We were told at least the verses of Carousel is all synth instead of live bass, not sure about the rest of the song.

Would "Slip" be in the same boat as "Esaul", "Pictureboard" and "Rhinestone"?

[c3bebuilder]

Just now, NJPLP said:

Would "Slip" be in the same boat as "Esaul", "Pictureboard" and "Rhinestone"?

Most likely but we don’t have the Xero demo of slip to confirm that. Would not be surprised if it’s the same exact instrumental and it most probably is

[mataxspen]

So, one thing I thought about: considering this all likely started from the interview you gave, are you worried about the possibility of this extending to LPLive directly? Like, I SERIOUSLY doubt LPLive would get sued as a part of this, but I could see the site being named in the lawsuit as a "witness" or person/place of interest or something, and the site getting dragged in that way.

[Spinettard]

I really wonder how step up and carousel from the nov. 1998 CD sounds, maybe there are the same as the ones on the EP but then why is kyle credited there then?

[NJPLP]

15 hours ago, ZeroWT said:

I really wonder how step up and carousel from the nov. 1998 CD sounds, maybe there are the same as the ones on the EP but then why is kyle credited there then?

I wonder that too, but I also wonder, since those two songs date back to the Xero era, why wasn't Mark credited as a writer on the later versions of those songs? ("Carousel" [HT EP], "Step Up" [HT EP], "Step Up" [1999 Demo] (B-Side Rarities), and "Carousel" [Demo])

Edited November 18, 2023 by NJPLP

[Spinettard]

4 hours ago, NJPLP said:

I wonder that too, but I also wonder, since those two songs date back to the Xero era, why wasn't Mark credited as a writer on the later versions of those songs? ("Carousel" [HT EP], "Step Up" [HT EP], "Step Up" [1999 Demo] (B-Side Rarities), and "Carousel" [Demo])

Going to be honest i didn't read jeff blue's book but as far as i know there was a certain amount of time when mark leave and chester join right? so maybe some songs were made there, But the fact the cd dates from november makes it more weird. I wonder how many songs were actually made in xero era since we spend decades thiking they were from HT made with chester

[LPsMart]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:35 AM, lpliveusername said:

Dedicated? She Couldn't? Step Up

Dedicated simply has no bass at all.

She Couldn't has bass but I'm certain it's sampled. Like no question - one might even check the MS library for that sound and end up finding it.

Step Up and Carousel could both easily have no live bass at all. Step Up has a pretty interesting bass line but you can't hear anything like fret noise or something on it and it sounds a little too on point. There's one part of the loop in the verses that vaguely reminds me of a slide but even that could be just the sample sliding into the note. I'm not sure I hear bass on the Carousel chorus, but what I hear could be the same sound font as the synth used in the verses. My guess is both songs have MPC bass on them.

 

Now here's what's interesting and I hope someone can back me up with AI isolation:

There is no live bass on StickNMove with Chester.

Back around 2020-2021 when it came out I was playing with some of the samples of Mike's we have and put together some of the HTEP stuff. And the verses of StickNMove are all there. Every sample, even the bass - basically the whole song except vocals and guitar (and one single tom fill at the end of the bridge I have yet to find). We have the complete song in individual samples at our hands. My claim is that there is no bass in the chorus at all and the verses have sampled bass.

 

Here my re-arrangement of HTEP tracks and SnM using only original MS/JH/LP samples and Chair.  Like most of my work, none of this is finished and the furthest developed are the verses of Stick'N'Move and the intro to Carousel.

 

To sum it up: My theory is that StickNMove, Carousel and Step Up all have their respective Xero instrumentals from the '98 CD, having neither Phoenix nor Kyle on them.

Slip is the odd one out and I don't get that song at all in terms of bass. Now when I focus on it I feel like it's playing all the wrong notes. That could have been Kyle doing his thing, that, in my humble opinion, doesn't go along with the guitars too well, but might also be leftovers from the basic track Mike had provided, maybe around a little bass sample they had recorded ar some point like Hurry or P&A. The bass loop in the verses definitely show that there had been a bass guitar involved at some point, but not when. 

 

[lpliveusername]

39 minutes ago, LPsMart said:

She Couldn't has bass but I'm certain it's sampled. Like no question - one might even check the MS library for that sound and end up finding it.

The thing with She Couldn't is that we have the "Emo," the demo beat for the song, and the bass sounds different from She Couldn't.

 

39 minutes ago, LPsMart said:

Dedicated simply has no bass at all.

39 minutes ago, LPsMart said:

Step Up and Carousel could both easily have no live bass at all. Step Up has a pretty interesting bass line but you can't hear anything like fret noise or something on it and it sounds a little too on point. There's one part of the loop in the verses that vaguely reminds me of a slide but even that could be just the sample sliding into the note. I'm not sure I hear bass on the Carousel chorus, but what I hear could be the same sound font as the synth used in the verses. My guess is both songs have MPC bass on them.

Agreed. Carousel is all synth as far as I can tell. The only song on the Hybrid Theory EP which seems to have live bass is And One. I'm not entirely sure about Part Of Me because there's too much going on in the instrumental. Maybe someone with a more trained ear can identify something I couldn't.

 

39 minutes ago, LPsMart said:

Now here's what's interesting and I hope someone can back me up with AI isolation:

There is no live bass on StickNMove with Chester.

I think you're right.

https://we.tl/t-oELrvBEmWp

 

It's also safe to assume everything on So Far Away is sampled, because it was literally an attempt by Mike to create a song entirely on his MPC. Now the question is: was the bass recorded by Kyle or not? If you open thye project for Hurry, the bass sample is simply called "BASS1". Judging by the name, it doesn't seem like Mike took it from a song by another artist because he always named the artist when he did that. Would such a small sample grant him any kind of credits for the song though?

 

Basically, the recordings I think Kyle might have played on are:

 

And One

In The End (Demo)

Points Of Authority (Demo) [LPU Rarities]

Slip (1998 Unreleased Hybrid Theory Demo)

So Far Away (Unreleased 1998)

Blue (1998 Unreleased Hybrid Theory Demo)

She Couldn't

Could Have Been

Points Of Authority (Demo) [Forgotten Demos]

Crawling (Demo)

SuperXero (By Myself Demo)

Esaul (Frat Party At The Pankake Festival)

[LPsMart]

Trying to dive deeper, I used AI to extract bass from Slip (no uploading audio, you guys know how to do it, I thiink) and contrary to my previous belief, I'm now 100% sure that is bass through DI. What I referred to as loop in the verses is in fact not a loop and there are some minor timing issues in the choruses. Maybe the bass came onto the song after Xero had their rebirth. After listening a few times it seems they tried bass but it sounds like nothing but an experiment. This would match with Kyle's attitude towards playing on their tracks.

 

For She Couldn't I stay with my opinion, even with isolated bass it seems most likely to me that Mike used a single bass note and pitched it up and down. Like, every note has the same attack but slightly sped up or slowed down, depending on the pitch of the note. It seems to be live bass sampled, but just to replace the sample that had been on Emo. Like copy and paste, it seems Mike just replaced the original "boring" sample with a live recorded bass npte and boom the whole song got upgraded. Again - just a theory, on the other hand that bass just repeats over and over - even Mike could have played that bass line live.

 

Part of Me sounds very much like live bass to me. There's even some percussive dead notes at the end of the bridge. Definietly the style of someone who had played bass frequently before, I don't think it's Brad. Could be Kyle.

 

Exciting times. I hope someday we learn who we have to thank for that wonderful bass note at the end of the ITE demo, that someone somehow had decided to leave in.

[Hybrider]

On 11/20/2023 at 2:30 AM, LPsMart said:

Here my re-arrangement of HTEP tracks and SnM using only original MS/JH/LP samples and Chair.

If someone could add guitars in Stick N Move, I think we would get a Xero version of it. It does sound similar to Xero tape version, but there are also some similarities with HT version. I love it.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Hybrider

[NJPLP]

10 hours ago, Hybrider said:

If someone could add guitars in Stick N Move, I think we would get a Xero version of it. It does sound similar to Xero tape version, but there are also some similarities with HT version. I love it.

Which guitars? The ones from the 1997 Xero demo version with Mark or the 1999/2000 Hybrid Theory demo version with Chester?

Edited November 22, 2023 by NJPLP

[Hybrider]

5 hours ago, NJPLP said:

Which guitars? The ones from the 1997 Xero demo version with Mark or the 1999/2000 Hybrid Theory demo version with Chester?

With Chester. That's the only HQ version we have. It would be nice to have this LPsMart's instrumental version Stick N Move with guitars.

[LPsMart]

11 hours ago, Hybrider said:

With Chester. That's the only HQ version we have. It would be nice to have this LPsMart's instrumental version Stick N Move with guitars.

hold my beer   EDIT: starts at 0:10

 

I didn't have my original project at hand, so I just used the mp3 from the drive and put shit tons of compression on it because the cymbals were to present in the file. also put on some extracted drums quiently on the track for some emphasis and because the chorus is lacking them so far.
AI isn't the greatest tool yet, but I think its output is pretty alright. I mean the verses were basically already done (close no guitar anyways) and the bridge has always been a sick instrumental.
This would make a solid thread on it's own, I think we're getting a little off topic. (still anticipating tho haha)

Edited November 22, 2023 by LPsMart

[Hybrider]

18 hours ago, LPsMart said:

hold my beer   EDIT: starts at 0:10

 

I didn't have my original project at hand, so I just used the mp3 from the drive and put shit tons of compression on it because the cymbals were to present in the file. also put on some extracted drums quiently on the track for some emphasis and because the chorus is lacking them so far.
AI isn't the greatest tool yet, but I think its output is pretty alright. I mean the verses were basically already done (close no guitar anyways) and the bridge has always been a sick instrumental.
This would make a solid thread on it's own, I think we're getting a little off topic. (still anticipating tho haha)

TY! Good work. This is how Xero version of Stick N Move could sound like. Something between tape version and HT version. Or maybe it's the different version with Chester? I also hope that there is a totaly same version as from the Xero tape, but recorded in studio. I love how often there is a phone sample used.

[LPsMart]

1 hour ago, Hybrider said:

TY! Good work. This is how Xero version of Stick N Move could sound like. Something between tape version and HT version. Or maybe it's the different version with Chester? I also hope that there is a totaly same version as from the Xero tape, but recorded in studio. I love how often there is a phone sample used.

Thanks man!

Djzap did an amazing one in 2020 or 2021 that's not instrumental, but rather the verses and bridge of the Xero tape version with the HT instrumental and I believe some Runaway samples. I don't know if it is still around but you should definietly check it out if you like to imagine a Xero version. Sounds like the perfect Stick'N'Move to me. It's way better than my edit IMO. 

[NJPLP]

16 minutes ago, LPsMart said:

Thanks man!

Djzap did an amazing one in 2020 or 2021 that's not instrumental, but rather the verses and bridge of the Xero tape version with the HT instrumental and I believe some Runaway samples. I don't know if it is still around but you should definietly check it out if you like to imagine a Xero version. Sounds like the perfect Stick'N'Move to me. It's way better than my edit IMO. 

I found the topic with DJZap's version of "Stick N Move": 

 

 

 

[Hybrider]

I was listening to Fort Minor - Do What We Did in my car a few minutes ago. I recognized a quiet beat in it. That beat was from Stick N Move. You can hear that beat clearly in a Hybrid Party Of A Thousand Things. Mike used old stuff in FM, not only in LP.

[LPsMart]

9 hours ago, Hybrider said:

I was listening to Fort Minor - Do What We Did in my car a few minutes ago. I recognized a quiet beat in it. That beat was from Stick N Move. You can hear that beat clearly in a Hybrid Party Of A Thousand Things. Mike used old stuff in FM, not only in LP.

The thing that amuses me the most about stuff like this, is that they re-used a sample on In Pieces they had on Hurry. And to me it sounds like someone doing a line check or trying to make samples beat boxing. How adorable that they had kept that around for that long to eventually have it on an album.

So Far Away is one of my absolute favorite LP songs and I hope one day we get a more detailed evolution of that track.

[mattyice318]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:55 AM, LPsMart said:

After listening a few times it seems they tried bass but it sounds like nothing but an experiment. This would match with Kyle's attitude towards playing on their tracks.

 

 

Would you mind explaining what you mean by this?

[JZLP-NaughtyNottingham]

Any update on this ?

[LPLStaff]

Nothing yet. Unlikely we even get the details other than this was settled out of court. Kyle's claims are mostly BS - either the label/band pays him a little bit of money to go away and sign something saying he'll never come back, or a judge tosses the case or rules in favor of LP. Kyle is suing for songwriter rights on songs - he's very unlikely to get those.

[NJPLP]

On 2/14/2024 at 1:42 PM, LPLStaff said:

Nothing yet. Unlikely we even get the details other than this was settled out of court. Kyle's claims are mostly BS - either the label/band pays him a little bit of money to go away and sign something saying he'll never come back, or a judge tosses the case or rules in favor of LP. Kyle is suing for songwriter rights on songs - he's very unlikely to get those.

He's not getting his royalties. Check these articles out: Linkin Park Seek to Dismiss Former Bassist's Unpaid Royalties Lawsuit (msn.com)

Linkin Park Seeking Dismissal of Ex-Bassist’s Royalties Suit (msn.com)

Edited March 6 by NJPLP

[JZLP-NaughtyNottingham]

Los Angeles, March 7, 2024 

 

In a surprising turn of events, former collaborator Kyle Christner has filed a lawsuit against the iconic rock band Linkin Park, claiming unpaid royalties for songs he recorded with the group. 

Christner, who had worked with Linkin Park during the early stages of their career, asserted that he played a significant role in the creation of some of the band's most renowned tracks. His legal team argued that he was entitled to a share of the royalties generated by these songs.

 

However, instead of engaging in a protracted legal battle, the parties reached an unexpected settlement. Linkin Park opted to provide Christner with an exclusive Hybrid Theory 20th Anniversary Deluxe Box Set, commemorating two decades since the release of their groundbreaking debut album.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/linkin-park-seeking-dismissal-of-ex-bassist-s-royalties-suit/ar-BB1jseuY?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=bc2d156585fd410899c604e28ccc7ecc&ei=8

[bloodbath]

1 minute ago, JZLP-NaughtyNottingham said:

Los Angeles, March 7, 2024 

 

In a surprising turn of events, former collaborator Kyle Christner has filed a lawsuit against the iconic rock band Linkin Park, claiming unpaid royalties for songs he recorded with the group. 

Christner, who had worked with Linkin Park during the early stages of their career, asserted that he played a significant role in the creation of some of the band's most renowned tracks. His legal team argued that he was entitled to a share of the royalties generated by these songs.

 

However, instead of engaging in a protracted legal battle, the parties reached an unexpected settlement. Linkin Park opted to provide Christner with an exclusive Hybrid Theory 20th Anniversary Deluxe Box Set, commemorating two decades since the release of their groundbreaking debut album.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/linkin-park-seeking-dismissal-of-ex-bassist-s-royalties-suit/ar-BB1jseuY?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=bc2d156585fd410899c604e28ccc7ecc&ei=8

"Give me a box set and we forget all of this." Gotta love this guy

[leftshoe18]

He can't have believed in his case too strongly if he was willing to drop everything for a box set. lol