Geki Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 How rare is the Meteora ''Street Team Sampler'' with SIB and LFY? I have this CD. I got it in like 2003 and haven't looked at it since until I saw this thread today. Lol. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahninator Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Pretty common, wouldn't see it go for more than $5 although I'm sure $10 has been charged for it haha. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astat Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Just to make this clear then... What are ''b-sides'' and what are demos from LP? Surely there is a difference. For example, I refuse to call My December or stuff like Blackbirds a 'demo'. How many b-sides does LP have?? I have these so far High Voltage (Reprise) My December No Roads Left Blackbirds Not Alone Issho Ni A.06 (Because A-Six is on LPU9 which is the demo version of A.06) It's a pretty grey area with a band like LP that uses the terms "b-side" and "demo" interchangeably, but generally what I consider a b-side is a fully finished song that wasn't given a proper release at the time of its completion (usually in the form of songs that were recorded for albums but ultimately left off the final tracklistings, like High Voltage and No Roads Left). I consider something a demo when it was ultimately scrapped prior to reaching the point where you could call it "fully finished," which can include songs that were written/recorded during an album's production but abandoned before the final tracking phase, or earlier recordings of songs that were ultimately finalized (both being things we've gotten a LOT of on the past few LPU CDs). Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geki Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) It's a pretty grey area with a band like LP that uses the terms "b-side" and "demo" interchangeably, but generally what I consider a b-side is a fully finished song that wasn't given a proper release at the time of its completion (usually in the form of songs that were recorded for albums but ultimately left off the final tracklistings, like High Voltage and No Roads Left). I consider something a demo when it was ultimately scrapped prior to reaching the point where you could call it "fully finished," which can include songs that were written/recorded during an album's production but abandoned before the final tracking phase, or earlier recordings of songs that were ultimately finalized (both being things we've gotten a LOT of on the past few LPU CDs). So what about stuff like ATL, What We Don't Know, I Have Not Begun, Blue, Slip, So Far Away, Pretend To Be? Cuz I don't count the instrumental shit on the LPU albums. Only the demos with complete vocals and complete music. Edited April 10, 2013 by Geki Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergSlim Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Missing With You. SuperXero was released as "By Myself". Fixed Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgr Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 So what about stuff like ATL, What We Don't Know, I Have Not Begun, Blue, Slip, So Far Away, Pretend To Be? Cuz I don't count the instrumental shit on the LPU albums. Only the demos with complete vocals and complete music. my short answer would be "yes". my longer answer is "no". the term B-side typically refers to the track on the other ("B") side of a vinyl single (for example, High Voltage and My December on the OSC single). these could either be tracks that the band wouldn't be good as single, but might give a flavour of the rest of the album to encourage you to buy that afterwards (maybe they'd use By Myself or Forgotten?) or tracks that didn't make it onto the album (High Voltage & My December). I would call these tracks "traditional" B-Sides since they were released in a way that concurs with the standard definition of the term. the problem with using the term now, is that both vinyls and the single are not the dominant means of distributing music and the game has changed. No Roads Left was not released on a single as a b-side, but it was released on a special edition of the album. it does not stick to the old "rules" of the b-side (a finished track released on a single to encourage casual fans to buy the album), the gesture is still there, but it is being used differently (a finished track released to encourage hardcore fans to buy the special edition). Blackbirds too falls in this category - completing the game purely for a new track, would only happen if you were more than just a casual fan. Blackbirds, No Roads Left are b-sides, but they demonstrate the changes to the marketing methods used by the industry. while they're not b-sides in a traditional sense, they're still released to make a bit of money! obviously, the LPU system is arguably part of the above - it's a means to get hardcore fans to pay for extra material. and from Astat's description, the tracks you list could be considered "b-sides", since all these songs were dropped from the final processes of the album. however, there are problems with considering LPU-released material to be b-sides as "finished" tracks, purely by the nature of what the LPU CDs are offering. LPU is meant to offer the hardcore fans an small insight into the band's writing and recording process, and while some of things like Across The Line, What We Don't Know, I Have Not Begun, Blue, Slip, So Far Away (Pretend To Be - this wasn't LPU was it?) may sound finished to us, it is impossible for us to tell if those exact versions would have been used on the album if selected - the song structure, the lyrics, a guitar part, a sample here and there - could all have been changed, and the track would be re-recorded, and thus these would be demos. because these songs were dropped from any public release they can't be called b-sides because we simply don't know if they are finished! the only exception I would have to this are the tracks that were not re-worked after their release on the HT E.P. reissue - these songs were all clearly in a "finished" state as they were already released as an older EP, but they are not b-sides to anything else because again, they had already been released in their own right. things like SuperXero, Untitled (etc.) became demos when the band revisited them. if you consider the LPU to be something that's not for public release and ... well ... underground, you could safely call any tracks released via this system "demos". but then again, anyone can buy into the LPU, and these tracks are an incentive to hardcore fans to pay for additional content (Like the "modern-style" b-sides described above). this gets even more complicated if we start to ask why the band released 'Songs From The Underground' and 'A Decade Underground', since these EPs promote the LPU itself, not any actual album (let's not go down this path of discussion...) as Astat said, the grey are here is ridiculously murky (this has been difficult to write clearly!). i just thought this would be something interesting to bear in mind - those tracks that seem "finished" are finished to us (and therefore B-sides to the respective album) but we can't really pass judgement on their status as demo or b-side since we don't know what additional work might have gone into a track if it was to be put on a publicly released, studio album. personally, I don't call any of these tracks B-sides, because I consider to them to be songs from an album's "era". but hell, if you want to call them b-sides, who the hell is going to stop you!? Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueSoul Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Jesus christ, long explanation Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgr Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Jesus christ, long explanation haha yeah, that's why I put the first sentence Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astat Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 So what about stuff like ATL, What We Don't Know, I Have Not Begun, Blue, Slip, So Far Away, Pretend To Be? Cuz I don't count the instrumental shit on the LPU albums. Only the demos with complete vocals and complete music. Across the Line/What We Don't know are MTM b-sides. I Have Not Begun, I guess you could TECHNICALLY call an ATS b-side based on when it was recorded, although I'm not sure if that was ever really in consideration for the album (I think it was more of a situation where Mike wanted to properly record the verses from his guest appearance with The Roots). Blue, Slip, and So Far Away would all be HT demos (as would any other stuff from that era - the only true HT b-side is High Voltage). Pretend to Be is one of those songs that I prefer to just consider a standalone track (New Divide, Not Alone, Issho Ni, My December, and a few others would fall into this category too). If they had released the "seed" version from the MTM sessions, that would obviously be a demo, but they randomly finished the song a year after the album was done and stuck it on an LPU CD. It's kind of like how Tinfoil/Powerless were written during the ATS sessions but not released until after they were updated for Living Things, just that in this case the "updated version" wasn't released on a studio album. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geki Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Across the Line/What We Don't know are MTM b-sides. I Have Not Begun, I guess you could TECHNICALLY call an ATS b-side based on when it was recorded, although I'm not sure if that was ever really in consideration for the album (I think it was more of a situation where Mike wanted to properly record the verses from his guest appearance with The Roots). Blue, Slip, and So Far Away would all be HT demos (as would any other stuff from that era - the only true HT b-side is High Voltage). Pretend to Be is one of those songs that I prefer to just consider a standalone track (New Divide, Not Alone, Issho Ni, My December, and a few others would fall into this category too). If they had released the "seed" version from the MTM sessions, that would obviously be a demo, but they randomly finished the song a year after the album was done and stuck it on an LPU CD. It's kind of like how Tinfoil/Powerless were written during the ATS sessions but not released until after they were updated for Living Things, just that in this case the "updated version" wasn't released on a studio album. Is Blackbirds and Not Alone b-sides? Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorast Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 No, they're standalone tracks, because both were completed independently from any particular album cycle. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astat Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Is Blackbirds and Not Alone b-sides? Blackbirds, yes (I'm still sticking to my guns in saying that song wasn't touched at all between MTM and 8-Bit Rebellion). Not Alone, no, as it was redone later. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geki Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I know Astat has told me that ''Sono'' from the Stagelight Demos was not a LOATR early demo, but it was. I just watched the making of MTM and you can hear Mike singing ''sono'' over Fear!!!! Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueSoul Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I know Astat has told me that ''Sono'' from the Stagelight Demos was not a LOATR early demo, but it was. I just watched the making of MTM and you can hear Mike singing ''sono'' over Fear!!!!Isnt that like saying POA is a WTCFM demo because they both have the line "forfeit the game"? Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geki Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Isnt that like saying POA is a WTCFM demo because they both have the line "forfeit the game"? No because if you've actually heard Sono from Stagelight, it is very reminiscent to Fear/LOATR. It was probably the original seed for it. And with MTM, Rick wanted LP to develop vocals on a seed right away, before any real work was done to it, which the melody ''Sono'' probably was used, which is shown on Making of MTM. A lot of the Stagelight demos I feel are a bunch of seeds from MTM/ATS/LT. It's hard to tell from what demos they are from, but some you can almost guess, it's kind of cool. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgr Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 there are two known versions of the LOATR demo. the "2nd" released on LPU9 but the version Mike plays in the Making of MTM has the line "the sun was still sinking, and after it'd gone...", which is missing in the version released on LPU9 Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astat Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) I know Astat has told me that ''Sono'' from the Stagelight Demos was not a LOATR early demo, but it was. I just watched the making of MTM and you can hear Mike singing ''sono'' over Fear!!!! You're attributing a seed title to a particular song because Mike's gibberish lyrics happen to have a couple syllables in it that sound like "sono?" Seriously? Sono is at a tempo of 140 BPM. Leave Out All the Rest is at a tempo of 80 BPM. Shit like that doesn't change once an idea gets to the "seed" stage without completely scrapping the idea and starting from scratch. The keyboard loop from Sono does follow the same progression as LOATR in the same key. But I don't see how anybody could listen to the Sono percussion samples and think for a second that the two songs are related. Edited April 16, 2013 by Astat Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geki Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The keyboard loop from Sono does follow the same progression as LOATR in the same key. But I don't see how anybody could listen to the Sono percussion samples and think for a second that the two songs are related. Idk, to me, they sounded alike. Plus why would Mike sing sono over it. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-188836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahninator Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Is there any way we can get a rough time estimate of the Hybrid Theory 7 track, 8 track and 9 track demo CDs? Is there no way to figure that out? No insert or anything mentions any date? I find it weird we have just the 6 track date but not a date for the other 3. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-189357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpliveusername Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Is there any way we can get a rough time estimate of the Hybrid Theory 7 track, 8 track and 9 track demo CDs? Is there no way to figure that out? No insert or anything mentions any date? I find it weird we have just the 6 track date but not a date for the other 3. 8-track: 1999 7-track: February 2000 9-track: February 11, 2000 6-track: May 8, 2000 Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-189359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahninator Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 And the Hybrid Theory Unmastered was May 7, 2000? How is that possible if the 6 track demos were on a CD the day after and they were so different? I guess the timing doesn't really matter then, lol Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-189361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpliveusername Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 And the Hybrid Theory Unmastered was May 7, 2000? How is that possible if the 6 track demos were on a CD the day after and they were so different? I guess the timing doesn't really matter then, lol Plaster: June 2, 2000Studio Finals: July 5, 2000 Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-189364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geki Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Is my list of b-sides with year dates accurate guys? I didn't add demos of songs that made it onto albums and stuff. 1997 Coal Fuse Reading My Eyes 1998 Slip Blue So Far Away 1999 Dedicated She Couldn't 2000 High Voltage My December 2001 No B-sides 2002 Standing In The Middle A.06 Unfortunate Halo Soundtrack Program Broken Foot Pepper Ominous 2003 No B-Sides 2004 No B-Sides 2005 Divided 2006 Announcement Service Public Qwerty Pale YO Homecoming Clarity Asbestos Bunker Debris 2007 No Roads Left Across The Line What We Don't Know Blackbirds 2008 Lockjaw Pretend To Be 2009 I Have Not Begun New Divide 2010 Not Alone 2011 Issho Ni 2012 Complimentary Space Station Bruiser Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-190148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpliveusername Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 2001 No B-sides 2002 Standing In The Middle Wasn't "Standing In The Middle" recorded at the same time as "Enth E ND"? 2004 No B-Sides Sold My Soul To Yo Mama Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-190152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahninator Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Standing In The Middle was 2001 or 2002, I'd say 2002 for that as well. Divided I still believe is the song they worked on for the Machine Shop mixtape CD. They were barely in the studio in 2005, with DBS (then Snow White Tan) and FM work/touring going on. Complimentary isn't a b-side. I know I put it with those Stagelight Demos but the difference is that Mike made that JUST for OpenLabs. And did it after all LP studio work was done w/ LIVING THINGS. It was pretty recent. Bruiser and Space Station are LT/ATS era demos. Bruiser certainly is from the ATS period because the shit sounds exactly like Wretches lol. They need Wretches w/ Bruiser 20-25 second jam intro I wouldn't count the instrumentals w/ no vocals (besides Pale) as b-sides, I'd count them as demos. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/362-the-demo-list-thread/page/7/#findComment-190156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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