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"The band has matured"


NickDuffy
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Before anyone attempts to call me a "nu-metal fan", I think Minutes To Midnight and A Thousand Suns are Linkin Park's best albums. Far more superior than Hybrid Theory and Meteora.

 

It's kind of annoying that people are attacking other fans with phrases like "LINKIN PARK AREN'T DOING HYBRID THEORY 3, THEY MATURED" and "YOU'RE JUST A DUMB NU METAL FAN, LP HAS EVOLVED!" just because fans of the band aren't digging the softer songs such as Leave Out All The Rest and Iridescent. That doesn't just make them nu metal fans. I have a friend who is obsessed with bands like Innerpartysystem, Digtalism, and even Fleetwood Mac. Just because he doesn't like A Thousand Suns, and prefers the first two albums, doesn't make him a nu metal fan. The first two bands I mentioned are electronic and the third one is a classic pop-rock band. You can already tell he has a broad music taste, or at least broader than Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, and old Linkin Park.

 

Alot of these fans are being laughed at by these so called "smart fans" who think that since some people like basic power chords and more simple song structures, they are stupid and don't have a good taste in music. I know thousands of people on Youtube are even saying, what if Linkin Park had a progressive nu-metal style? More songs like Wretches And Kings for example. I know fans on Youtube who think that The Catalyst was amazing but the rest of the album was dissapointing. They aren't all just idiotic nu metal fans with the IQ of 7.

 

Speaking of mature music, do you find all of the lyrics on A Thousand Suns really that mature?

 

Ya'll ought to stop talking start trying to catch up motherfucker

 

Fuck it are you listening?

No, you've gotta get it inside

You push it back down, you push it back down

No, you'll never get it inside, push it back down

Blackout, blood in your eye

 

In When They Come For Me, Mike didn't need to throw around a curse like that. He could've kept that line and changed "motherfucker" or at least dropped it. In Blackout, Chester randomly says "fuck it are you listening?" after the second verse. It was kind of exciting at first like he is capturing your attention, but it's really random and out of place. Wretches and Kings tosses around the word "shit" when it isn't needed. Of course the lyrics are a huge step up from "you", "pain", and stuff like that, but come on, some people are taking this mature thing a little too far.

 

Linkin Park is indeed maturing, but there is no need to bash fans because they don't enjoy their newer sound, and there is no need to pretend that A Thousand Suns is filled with cryptic and beautiful metaphors, because in some cases it feels like i'm listening to their first two albums. That's just my opinion on this topic.

Edited by NickDuffy
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The lyrics on MTM and ATS aren't all ''poor-me'' lyrics like Mike has stated before. HT and Meteora are chock full of those kinds of lyrics. MTM and ATS are also more musically mature then HT and Meteora.

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The lyrics on MTM and ATS aren't all ''poor-me'' lyrics like Mike has stated before. HT and Meteora are chock full of those kinds of lyrics. MTM and ATS are also more musically mature then HT and Meteora.

Yes they aren't all "poor me", but in some cases the lyrics still aren't mature.

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i really enjoyed them when they didn't swear... chester did address this back in MTM saying something like "sometimes you have to curse to express yourself" something like that. I stopped swearing a while ago and it's rather liberating, it forces you to be creative when you want to get some emotion out without a blatant f-bomb. IMO it's the same with music, sure its easy to drop a few swear words in your song to make it sound full of anger and emotion, but most of the time it's shallow and meaningless. Without the swearing you have to actually think and be creative with what you write to get that boiling emotion across.

MY opinion.

 

*edit* and i'm not saying they were word smith geniuses back in the day

Edited by GraDoN
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Yes they aren't all "poor me", but in some cases the lyrics still aren't mature.

MTM is full of lyrics that either address Chester's divorce and his drug and alcohol addiction or politics, and ATS is full of lyrics about humanity and the world. They are much more mature than songs on HT and Meteora that basically scream ''I hate you'' or ''Let's break up''.

Edited by Geki
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i really enjoyed them when they didn't swear... chester did address this back in MTM saying something like "sometimes you have to curse to express yourself" something like that. I stopped swearing a while ago and it's rather liberating, it forces you to be creative when you want to get some emotion out without a blatant f-bomb. IMO it's the same with music, sure its easy to drop a few swear words in your song to make it sound full of anger and emotion, but most of the time it's shallow and meaningless. Without the swearing you have to actually think and be creative with what you write to get that boiling emotion across.

MY opinion.

 

*edit* and i'm not saying they were word smith geniuses back in the day

My opinion aswell

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MTM is full of lyrics that either address Chester's divorce and his drug and alcohol addiction or politics, and ATS is full of lyrics about humanity and the world. They are much more mature than songs on HT and Meteora that basically scream ''I hate you'' or ''Let's break up''.

 

+1 I agree

And sometimes you cannot find a word that still has the same amount of power as "FUCK".

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+1 I agree

And sometimes you cannot find a word that still has the same amount of power as "FUCK".

I agree. Songs like 'Hands Held High' or 'Given Up' would have not got their message across as clearly as they would have without swearing. Plus, on ATS, Mike sounds badass in Wretches and When They Come For Me, and I love when Chester screams fuck it during Blackout, adds SO much energy to the song.

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Haha. I remember the days when the LP community loved LP for being "hardcore without saying curse words."

 

Then the teaser for Given Up was released. I can not tell you how many bricks were shitted that day.

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I have a friend who is obsessed with bands like Innerpartysystem

Your friend has excellent taste.

 

I agree that the lyrics of the band have improved, especially on A Thousand Suns. I don't think the swearing adds anything and I kinda wish they did away with that- every band swears and it really has no impact any more- but overall I think their lyrics have matured, mainly because they're not all about Chester's poor, hurt little feelings any more, to quote the man himself.

 

As for the music... it's different. You can't really call one style of music more mature than the other, so I don't think that's really relevant. I do however think that A Thousand Suns IS a lot more individual and unique than Hybrid Theory, and in that way the band are being mature as they are not following trends.

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I was actually thinking about this today. On the way home from work OSC came on because I just have everything on shuffle. Then I though "Damn, this isnt as good lyrically as everything else they have put out recently". Im pretty sure thats why I listen to both MTM and ATS a lot more then HT and Meteora.

 

Just the fact that the lyrics have (well IMO, dont go crazy at me for saying this) a lot more meaning and a better story behind them instead of "Shut up when Im talking to you".

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It's not just in the lyrics either.

 

Linkin Park have matured in the sense that they make music purely for the artistic passion of making music. They want to make music that has meaning to them.

 

In the early days, I sense it was more about using music as a release. They were energetic young kids who wanted to dye their hair blue and jump around on stage screaming their asses off and banging power chords on their guitars. One of the band members said something to that effect around the time MTM came out. They aren't kids jumping around on stage anymore.

 

Though the band will never say this outright, Meteora is the way it is largely to capitalize off of the success of Hybrid Theory. The label wanted more music like their first album because it sold a ton of units. Linkin Park wanted to make more music like that because they were a bit star-struck with their own fame. They had gone from playing clubs to headlining festivals in literally about a year, so they figured they needed to repeat what made them successful.

 

With A Thousand Suns, Linkin Park has become motivated by artistic creativity. They want to make something different and unique. They want to make something they like. They want to make objectively good music.

 

Think of it this way. Nu-Metal music is like candy. It's fun to listen to and jump around to, it makes you feel good, but it isn't good for you. It's made on a conveyor belt in some factory with some very artificial ingredients. A Thousand Suns is more of a step in the direction of a 5 course meal, prepared with all natural ingredients. No, it isn't easy to eat. No, it doesn't taste good to everyone, it isn't just a bunch of sweets. But it's good for you, and it's clearly the better food when you're being objective.

 

Linkin Park doesn't want to whine about vague personal emotional problems set to the tune of drop D power chords. Linkin Park wants to make music that doesn't have a catchy chorus. Linkin Park wants to make music that talks about world/political/social problems (things that matter). And though they'll act like they don't care what critics say (and maybe they really don't), they want to make an album that is critically-acclaimed not because it's full of catchy pop songs like Crawling, Numb, In The End, etc, but because it's full of good, creative art.

 

So yes, "the band has matured." And yes, that is why they don't make nu-metal anymore. I've followed this band since Hybrid Theory. I was in the 4th grade at the time. I don't know about you, but I'm not into much of the same stuff I was into when I was in the 4th grade anymore.

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and let be clear don't mistake 'mature topic' with 'mature lyrics'

a song can be about a very interesting and deep topic, but the lyrics can still be bad/not very good

some of the newer LP songs are like that IMO

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Think of it this way. Nu-Metal music is like candy. It's fun to listen to and jump around to, it makes you feel good, but it isn't good for you. It's made on a conveyor belt in some factory with some very artificial ingredients. A Thousand Suns is more of a step in the direction of a 5 course meal, prepared with all natural ingredients. No, it isn't easy to eat. No, it doesn't taste good to everyone, it isn't just a bunch of sweets. But it's good for you, and it's clearly the better food when you're being objective.

That's a pretty good metaphor, actually.

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Hey this thread was simply stating that just because some fans aren't big fans of their latest work, doesn't make them bad music fans. I have stated earlier that I adore their last two albums and prefer them over Hybrid Theory and Meteora. I just think that if someone says "hey, bring back the old lp!" they shouldn't automatically get labeled as trolls or morons. Bleed It Out and Wretches And Kings were bad-ass songs. I am very pleased that they didn't sprinkle their latest albums with songs like that. Who's to say they can't have two or three songs on their new album in the rap/rock format, with challenging and daring structures? I'm not saying "zomg lp make 3 more songs similar to wretches n kingz because it is heavy nd i cant handle variety". What i'm saying is Linkin Park could easily bring both groups of fans together without any more arguments, while still being creative and challenging themselves.

Edited by NickDuffy
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LP fans never know what they want. A lot of people don't like songs like Given Up, No More Sorrow and Qwerty from the MTM era because they're too heavy and in your f ace for they're liking. People don't like the slow songs from MTM and ATS, but they complain that they don't like the fast ones. People complain they want rap/rock again, so they make songs like Wretches And Kings or Bleed It Out and people still don't like that. LP fans all bitch about what they want, but in reality, I don't think they really know what they want. MTM is my favorite LP album, but I don't expect LP to make that album again, I'd rather have them make songs they want to make because I can just listen to MTM and look at pictures, etc., from that time. The band is always going to make different records until they one day stop making music, that's what I think.

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LP fans never know what they want. A lot of people don't like songs like Given Up, No More Sorrow and Qwerty from the MTM era because they're too heavy and in your f ace for they're liking. People don't like the slow songs from MTM and ATS, but they complain that they don't like the fast ones. People complain they want rap/rock again, so they make songs like Wretches And Kings or Bleed It Out and people still don't like that. LP fans all bitch about what they want, but in reality, I don't think they really know what they want. MTM is my favorite LP album, but I don't expect LP to make that album again, I'd rather have them make songs they want to make because I can just listen to MTM and look at pictures, etc., from that time. The band is always going to make different records until they one day stop making music, that's what I think.

Yeah Minutes To Midnight was really good. It opened up all of the doors for A Thousand Suns. That is the record where the political themes kicked in (barely), the experimentation, Mike using his voice for singing, everything about it was golden.

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Yeah Minutes To Midnight was really good. It opened up all of the doors for A Thousand Suns. That is the record where the political themes kicked in (barely), the experimentation, Mike using his voice for singing, everything about it was golden.

Rob said MTM is still his favorite LP album. The band felt so connected during the making of this album. Mike went crazy, making sure all the lyrics and melodies and everything were really good for MTM. Mike wrote WID in one night and it went on to be one of LP's biggest singles!! Phoenix said MTM is LP at it's best. Idk. I think MTM was a really good record, it had something for everyone. It had some rapping, some screaming, rock ballads, soft songs, guitar solo's, hip-hop beats, etc. Plus the Houdini Mansion was badass.

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Their lyrics were better when they forced themselves to not use explicit to get across a message. I don't see ATS or MTM as a more mature album at all. I didn't know pop music was mature at all.

Yeah, but its only like 6 songs overall with actual cursing. And by the way, ATS is definitely not a pop album.

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Minutes To Midnight is a beautiful record. There is no filler at all. Every track has it's own identity, with a message that you can relate to. I adore it more than I ever did before.

I used to really be disappointed with MTM, but after hearing ATS, I've grown to accept MTM more. Just wish songs like IB,Wake, LOATR,TLTGYA never made the album cut.

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