Hybrid Theory in Atmos Spatial

[YRQRM0]

Why is nobody talking about this? This is an entire new mix of Hybrid Theory - a bigger sonic change than that of the HT20 remasters of tracks like She Couldn't from what I gather. 

 

Hybrid Theory is apparently in Atmos on Apple Music now. What do we know about this? Did Mike authorize this/work on it? Or is this the label just doing it for a marketing deal? 

 

I don't have Apple Music so I can't comment, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on it. I for one am highly skeptical, and it doesn't seem like something that Mike would want to do. He's never one for revisiting old work like this. I also feel like, despite how keen he is on certain new trends, he'd be more on the "stereo is king" side of this particular trend. But I'd be happy to be blown away by it and have my mind changed. I see some people raving about it on twitter. 

[lpliveusername]

Amazon did it last year:

https://lplive.net/forums/topic/14372-amazon-music-to-remaster-linkin-park-in-ultra-hd-3d-audio/

 

It's available on Tidal too:

https://news.dolby.com/en-WW/189109-tidal-and-dolby-bring-dolby-atmos-music-to-the-home

Other stores are just jumping on the bandwagon.

[YRQRM0]

1 hour ago, lpliveusername said:

Amazon did it last year:

https://lplive.net/forums/topic/14372-amazon-music-to-remaster-linkin-park-in-ultra-hd-3d-audio/

 

It's available on Tidal too:

https://news.dolby.com/en-WW/189109-tidal-and-dolby-bring-dolby-atmos-music-to-the-home

Other stores are just jumping on the bandwagon.

 

I noticed that after submitting this question, but I still can't find anything about the mix. Did they actually work on a new mix? Is this just a cheap cash grab by the label? If this is actually a new mix that Mike oversaw, it seems like a pretty big deal. If it's the latter (as I suspect, but haven't heard it to get an opinion), then it kinda sucks. 

 

Also, although I see that Tidal has Atmos available music and I'm able to hear it on my phone, neither HT or HT20 appears to be atmos on Tidal. Neither display the "atmos" tag that other songs do when played, and there's no audio difference when turning atmos on and off in my Android OS. 

[lpliveusername]

3 hours ago, YRQRM0 said:

I noticed that after submitting this question, but I still can't find anything about the mix. Did they actually work on a new mix? Is this just a cheap cash grab by the label? If this is actually a new mix that Mike oversaw, it seems like a pretty big deal. If it's the latter (as I suspect, but haven't heard it to get an opinion), then it kinda sucks.

It's a 5.1 surround version of the album, so I guess they needed to make a new mix in order to split the songs into 6 channels instead of the regular 2 from the stereo version. I think it's something the label ordered for the 20th anniversary celebration. Not sure if Mike was involved. I think he never talked about it.

[Rasputin 93]

Would be nice to investigate.

[YRQRM0]

On 6/15/2021 at 12:50 AM, lpliveusername said:

It's a 5.1 surround version of the album, so I guess they needed to make a new mix in order to split the songs into 6 channels instead of the regular 2 from the stereo version. I think it's something the label ordered for the 20th anniversary celebration. Not sure if Mike was involved. I think he never talked about it.

 

Well it's certainly a new mix but it's not accurate to call it 5.1 or 6 channels. Dolby Atmos is channel-agnostic and instead encodes with position data, and then just "places" the sound where it should be to the best of its ability with whatever hardware is available. 

 

But yeah, given that it's a new mix that seems super significant and I'm surprise the fandom isn't looking into it more. 

 

So, if anyone's willing to ask him on twitch, that would be great! This is as big a deal as stuff like She Couldn't getting a new master for HT:20. Bigger even imo

Edited June 17, 2021 by YRQRM0

[yagamilight207]

Does it need the right hardware to play?

Listening using my low end Sony earphone feels like i'm listening to HT with some layers turned off.

[Robrobbsen]

Is there some way to split the layers like with reanimation?🤔

[lpliveusername]

22 minutes ago, Robrobbsen said:

Is there some way to split the layers like with reanimation?🤔

Yes. If you open on Audacity for instance you can see all 6 of them.

 

9 hours ago, YRQRM0 said:

Well it's certainly a new mix but it's not accurate to call it 5.1 or 6 channels. Dolby Atmos is channel-agnostic and instead encodes with position data, and then just "places" the sound where it should be to the best of its ability with whatever hardware is available. 

Sorry for my ignorance but what exactly is channel-agnostic?

 

I mean, the media info does say 5.1 and it does show 6 channels.

[Robrobbsen]

Can someone send me the link to buy it? I don´t really find anything if I search for Linkin Park Hybrid Theory 5.1

[martinez]

50 minutes ago, Robrobbsen said:

Can someone send me the link to buy it? I don´t really find anything if I search for Linkin Park Hybrid Theory 5.1

 

Because it is associated with the standard version as a additional option that you can switch between the standard stereo and dolby atmos. For example dolby atmos is available in this album, but there is no info. it's available for streaming only, there's no way you can buy it... but there is a way to download it from some streaming services like tidal...

 

I don't know if there are any changes in the mix - what I mean here is that they could use already mixed multitracks to created dolby atmos. I remember that the only person who worked on that was Brian and he's not a mixer. EDIT: not sure if he was the only one person, you could just summary that from what he was said to me

Edited June 17, 2021 by martinez

[YRQRM0]

11 hours ago, lpliveusername said:

Yes. If you open on Audacity for instance you can see all 6 of them.

 

Sorry for my ignorance but what exactly is channel-agnostic?

 

I mean, the media info does say 5.1 and it does show 6 channels.

 

Where do you see that media info? On a player of some sort?

 

Atmos is supposed to be encoded with spatial data. It's easier to explain with a movie. Traditionally, you would say "that explosion needs to come from the right, so put most of it in the right channel, some reverb in the back right, maybe a little bit in the center, etc."

 

But with atmos, you just tag the sound as being to "the right" and the player will use atmos technology to decide what speaker it comes out of. So if you have no right speaker, it will just play it out of the other stuff in the best way it can. If you have 100 speakers in a circle, it will play a little bit out of a bunch of speakers in whatever way makes sense to make it sound like the sound is coming from where you said it should. That's why it works in headphones, too. Because it's using trickery in the sound to make it sound like things are coming from other directions, even though there are just two channels in your ear buds. 

 

So atmos doesn't deal with channels as much as it deals with direction. Sound will come out of 3.1, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 11.2. 22.2 etc. because the hardware will push the sound out in whatever way makes sense. Whereas if you play reanimation's 5.1 mix on a 11.1 system, nothing will happen with most of the speakers because rather than having direction encoded, it just has channels encoded that go to the speakers. 

 

[lpliveusername]

12 minutes ago, YRQRM0 said:

Where do you see that media info? On a player of some sort?

 

Atmos is supposed to be encoded with spatial data. It's easier to explain with a movie. Traditionally, you would say "that explosion needs to come from the right, so put most of it in the right channel, some reverb in the back right, maybe a little bit in the center, etc."

 

But with atmos, you just tag the sound as being to "the right" and the player will use atmos technology to decide what speaker it comes out of. So if you have no right speaker, it will just play it out of the other stuff in the best way it can. If you have 100 speakers in a circle, it will play a little bit out of a bunch of speakers in whatever way makes sense to make it sound like the sound is coming from where you said it should. That's why it works in headphones, too. Because it's using trickery in the sound to make it sound like things are coming from other directions, even though there are just two channels in your ear buds. 

 

So atmos doesn't deal with channels as much as it deals with direction. Sound will come out of 3.1, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 11.2. 22.2 etc. because the hardware will push the sound out in whatever way makes sense. Whereas if you play reanimation's 5.1 mix on a 11.1 system, nothing will happen with most of the speakers because rather than having direction encoded, it just has channels encoded that go to the speakers. 

Thank you for the explanation. That was my first thought too when I read "3D Audio" both on Amazon's and Apple's press releases. But from the files I have it does seem like they have a fixed amount of channels and I did see reports of some elements missing from the songs when people played the album in stereo sound systems.

 

 

 

[martinez]

[LPsMart]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:19 AM, Robrobbsen said:

Is there some way to split the layers like with reanimation?🤔

I think we're all just trying to get a better look inside WY, POA, CFTI and APFMH, right?

for me it's especially APFMH

[Robrobbsen]

46 minutes ago, LPsMart said:

I think we're all just trying to get a better look inside WY, POA, CFTI and APFMH, right?

for me it's especially APFMH

shhhhhh🤫 😁😁

[martinez]

Most people who will listen to the album at dolby atmos will use just stereo headphones, so if they would say that this sound awesome, then they will actually don't know what they talkin bout.

[LPsMart]

1 hour ago, martinez said:

Most people who will listen to the album at dolby atmos will use just stereo headphones, so if they would say that this sound awesome, then they will actually don't know what they talkin bout.

yeah but as for Powerless (which was the first one I listened to on Stereo), each individual track sounds stupid enough. I can't imagine a Surround System would add much to that

[Robrobbsen]

Isn´t it funny that everyone got mad about the "Chipmunk Vocals" on OML? If you listen to the quiet part of the APFMH bridge you can clearly hear that there is a pitched up vocal of Chester, not as extreme as in Good Goodbye but i still find it kind of ironic. Also I THINK the guitar in papercut is different from the multitracks that are allready out there, there is a little string scraping sound that is present in the 5.1 tracks that is not present on the Multitracks.

[Rasputin 93]

So where exactly can I purchase or rather save/download an Atmos mix of HT now, so I can play it offline/have it outside of the platform?

I don't have any compatible speakers, but I def want to look into the above seen 5.1 split of channels.

[dampney]

This hype behind Spatial Audio (Dolby Atmos) is from the recent Apple Music release - all subscribers get free access to Lossless and Atmos tracks.

 

I’ve listened to the dolby HT on supported headphones (Airpods Max and AirPods Pro) and it’s an awesome fresh experience. I thought Chester was behind me in my apartment at first - you feel surrounded by the instruments.

 

Though there are some issues with this Atmos mix such as the intro to Forgotten  is cut (most likely a mistake) but questions if this was rushed by the label.

 

I’d personally would love to hear from the band, especially Mike on how and if they played a role in this new mix, plus if they/label plan to release the full studio albums with Dolby atmos?

 

ATS in Dolby atmos would be an incredible experience! 😍 imagine the crickets on Empty Spaces in Dolby atmos 😆

[YRQRM0]

On 6/17/2021 at 4:41 PM, lpliveusername said:

Thank you for the explanation. That was my first thought too when I read "3D Audio" both on Amazon's and Apple's press releases. But from the files I have it does seem like they have a fixed amount of channels and I did see reports of some elements missing from the songs when people played the album in stereo sound systems.

 

 

 

 

Hmm that's very interesting. I don't doubt that there exists a 5.1 version or that things like audacity convert atmos to 5.1 to make it understandable by the program. Or, if you don't know where that file originated from, maybe it was converted by whoever ripped it from atmos to 5.1

 

But to further convey the point of atmos, consider the headphone use case. If people are really hearing surround in stereo headphones, it has to be atmos and channel agnostic. Because it's using only 2 channels with audio processing tricks to make it sound like surround in the 2 headphones. Otherwise, it wouldn't know how to do that, and you'd either hear just the stereo mix, or missing sounds. 

 

But yeah, still very curious to get some info about Mike/band's involvement in this and if they are fans of it. Personally I'm still very skeptical that this will even stick around. I see it as dying like 3D did in the home TV market. 

[RogueSoul]

Just got Airpod Pros so the first thing I decided to do was load up Hybrid Theory on Apple Music.

 

This is definitely a fresh mix. Lots of new shit that was previously buried in the mix is now a whole load more hearable, especially echo and BG synths that pan from left to right.

 

honestly I’m not sure how I feel about it as a whole. It feels like a full studio recording of a random club show in 2000 lol which is pretty cool, but I can’t help but feel like some of the mixes are lacking, especially in the bass department. The riffs of APFMH and Papercut dont hit me like the standard version, and forget about being able to distinguish the bassline, you can barely even feel it in some parts.

 

In terms of being able to dissect whats going on in the production OR in terms of trying to make the studio tracks sound like they’re being performed live, this is a dope listen. There are some parts that sounds fuckin phenomenal; when CFTI drops for example, or the end of Papercut with the layers of backing. but if I want to be JAMMING with the sounds of driven distorted guitars in my ears, I wouldn’t say I prefer it to the original mix.

[JZLP-NaughtyNottingham]

20 hours ago, RogueSoul said:

Just got Airpod Pros so the first thing I decided to do was load up Hybrid Theory on Apple Music.

 

This is definitely a fresh mix. Lots of new shit that was previously buried in the mix is now a whole load more hearable, especially echo and BG synths that pan from left to right.

 

honestly I’m not sure how I feel about it as a whole. It feels like a full studio recording of a random club show in 2000 lol which is pretty cool, but I can’t help but feel like some of the mixes are lacking, especially in the bass department. The riffs of APFMH and Papercut dont hit me like the standard version, and forget about being able to distinguish the bassline, you can barely even feel it in some parts.

 

In terms of being able to dissect whats going on in the production OR in terms of trying to make the studio tracks sound like they’re being performed live, this is a dope listen. There are some parts that sounds fuckin phenomenal; when CFTI drops for example, or the end of Papercut with the layers of backing. but if I want to be JAMMING with the sounds of driven distorted guitars in my ears, I wouldn’t say I prefer it to the original mix.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience!

the standard version of HT is the best way to listen to the album but i love that we now have 3 options to listen to it, i love having a total different version of this album.

 

btw i dont think that the correct way to listen to this version is via headphones

 

im still waiting for a review of someone who listened to the album in a sorround sound/ home theater

[RogueSoul]

2 hours ago, JZ-GreyDazeWorshipper said:

btw i dont think that the correct way to listen to this version is via headphones

 

im still waiting for a review of someone who listened to the album in a sorround sound/ home theater

 oh yeah i bet the whole surround system would be an even more different experience. these were the first devices I had that could even work with Dolby Atmos so I thought I’d give it a try lmao. I bet a surround sound setup with this would actually sound pretty awesome. It really puts you right in the center of the mix, such that things are even coming in from behind you, like the drums or sometimes the bass. That’s where I feel like the problem lies tho; maybe its a headphone-specific issue, but it feels like the instruments typically in the center of the stereo mix (drums, bass) are now BEHIND you in some respects so while it may be easier to distinguish whats going on, the dynamics aren’t as bright or sharp as you’d hope. I have a surround sound system but I’m not sure if it’ll do Dolby Atmos, perhaps someone can try it out for themselves if they have the equipment!