LPU Demos - Correct Dates

[Geki]

I think we should have a huge discussion on what the actual dates are for the demos in our own opinion since we know that a lot of them are wrong. It would make sense to start with LPU9 and everything after it since everything before LPU9 doesn't really apply.

 

I think LPU9 has correct dates for the tracks except for maybe Sad being from 1998 like Stick N Move and not 1999 like it's labeled as.

 

Unfortunate: 2002

What We Don't Know: 2007

Oh No: 1998, like Sad and Stick N Move

I Have Not Begun: Most likely 2009, Mike rapped it live in January 2010

Pale: 2006

Pretend To Be: I think it was tweaked up in 2008 but the actual song is from 2006 like Chance Of Rain

Divided: I'm thinking early 2006 with the batch of FM era ones like Basquiat, Universe, etc.

What I've Done (M. Shinoda Remix): 2007.

Coal: 1997, MAYBE 1998

Halo: 2002

 

Yo: 2006

Slip: 1999 (Chester didn't join the band until 1999 so the 1998 is obviously false)

Soundtrack: 2002

In The End (Demo): 1999

Program: 2002

Bang Three: Was either late 2006 or 2007

Robot Boy: 2009 or most likely 2010, I'm leaning towards 2010

Broken Foot: 2002

Esaul: 1999

Blue: 1999 (Chester didn't join the band until 1999 so the 1998 is obviously false)

 

Homecoming: 2006

Points Of Authority (Demo): 1999

Clarity: 2006

Asbestos: 2006

Bunker: 2006

So Far Away: 1999 (Chester didn't join the band until 1999 so the 1998 is obviously false)

Pepper: 2002

Debris: I don't think this was ever a MTM era song at all, I think it was made for ATS in 2009 or 2010

Ominous: 2002

Forgotten (Demo): 1999

 

Basquiat: 2006

Holding Company: 2011

Primo: 2010 seems correct

Hemispheres: 2011

Cumulus: 2002

Pretty Birdy: 2002

Universe: 2006

Apaches: 2011

Foot Patrol: 2011

Three Band Terror: 2011

 

Will do the others after.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Geki

[Skipees]

You can use some colors for "Correct" "Probably correct" "Probably wrong" and "Wrong", it'll make it easier to discuss.

[JZLP-NaughtyNottingham]

Would be cool if you actually make a list per year not by album

[Astat]

...

Sad is dated 1999, not 1998. Any of those instrumentals from the pre-HT period could easily be either year, no reason to question any of them IMO.

 

Pretend to Be originates from the MTM sessions but wasn't finished at the time, so the 2008 date refers to it being worked on more later.

 

No reason to question Divided being a 2005 demo IMO. Music WAS worked on during this period.

 

Note that on LPU 11-13, not all demos specifically had dates attached to them, so we're doing some guesswork regardless.

 

Slip is from 1999, not 1998 (the recording we have, anyway - the song itself dates back to the Xero era).

 

What I've Done was the last track finished for Minutes to Midnight and the demo was done very quickly right before the band moved from Laurel to NRG, which I'm pretty sure dates Bang Three to early 2007.

 

Robot Boy is 2010, it's literally the finalized album mix with a different vocal take. ATS came out late enough in 2010 that anything that was at this stage of completion would have to be 2010.

 

Blue is 1999, not 1998.

 

I'd say Asbestos could possibly be from 2007 considering it actually has some pretty fleshed-out lyrics, but then again the song itself feels so incomplete that 2006 is more likely.

 

So Far Away is 1999, not 1998.

 

Debris absolutely WAS a Minutes to Midnight demo, the song was reconsidered for use during the ATS era as well. I suppose there's a possibility that they mixed things up and put the ATS-era recording on the CD (which would be from 2010), but if they used the correct demo it's in the same category as Asbestos - probably 2006, possibly 2007.

 

Basquiat's definitely 2006, not 2007. It's tuned down half a step but played on a Strat, which was only be a characteristic found on Mike demos from early in the MTM writing process (Mike used Strats on some of the Fort Minor-era material in the old tuning, but tuning up from Db to D wasn't suggested until they got in the studio with Ethan Mates at Laurel).

 

LPU 14 - I'd say Heartburn is probably 2006, not 2007. Everything else seems correct to me.

 

LPU 15 - Attached is definitely 2002, not 2003. It's not a post-Meteora demo, as I confirmed with Sean Paden a while back that LP didn't book any studio time while on tour in 2003 (a question I originally asked in reference to the possibility of portions of Live in Texas being redone in the studio - it's all live!). I'd say Chair could potentially be a beat Mike made in 1998, but he also correctly identified Pods as being from 1998 on the same release, so I'm inclined to believe 1999 is correct for Chair.

 

LPU 16 - Dark Crystal is questionable, it uses a loop from the second Stagelight sound pack, which came out in November of 2014. However it's at a different speed than the original loop, and no other samples from that track are found in the sound pack, so the sample may have been reused later on. Bleed it Out demo is almost definitely 2006 instead of 2007. Burberry is just a shortened version of Space Station, which came out in 2012. Maybe they edited down the original in 2015 and re-titled it, but otherwise they didn't do shit to this song in the three years between when we originally got it and when it's allegedly from.

 

Also, demos released with incorrect titles:

-In the End (Demo) = Untitled

-Forgotten (Demo) = Rhinestone

-Pretty Birdy = Seen on Making of Meteora song board as "Pretty Birdie," unknown which spelling is correct

-Breaking the Habit (Original Mike Demo) = Would have still been referred to as "Drawing" at this point, but since we already got the Drawing instrumental on LPU 9, it's probably easier to differentiate between the two this way

-Bleed it Out (Demo) = Accident

-Lies Greed Misery (Demo) = Piledriver

 

Also also, numerous statements Mike made in the LPU track-by-track videos are incorrect, including Animals being an early version of Roads Untraveled (obviously untrue), and Part of Me being a Xero demo (it was not).

[Geki]

Sad is dated 1999, not 1998. Any of those instrumentals from the pre-HT period could easily be either year, no reason to question any of them IMO.

 

Pretend to Be originates from the MTM sessions but wasn't finished at the time, so the 2008 date refers to it being worked on more later.

 

No reason to question Divided being a 2005 demo IMO. Music WAS worked on during this period.

 

Note that on LPU 11-13, not all demos specifically had dates attached to them, so we're doing some guesswork regardless.

 

Slip is from 1999, not 1998 (the recording we have, anyway - the song itself dates back to the Xero era).

 

What I've Done was the last track finished for Minutes to Midnight and the demo was done very quickly right before the band moved from Laurel to NRG, which I'm pretty sure dates Bang Three to early 2007.

 

Robot Boy is 2010, it's literally the finalized album mix with a different vocal take. ATS came out late enough in 2010 that anything that was at this stage of completion would have to be 2010.

 

Blue is 1999, not 1998.

 

I'd say Asbestos could possibly be from 2007 considering it actually has some pretty fleshed-out lyrics, but then again the song itself feels so incomplete that 2006 is more likely.

 

So Far Away is 1999, not 1998.

 

Debris absolutely WAS a Minutes to Midnight demo, the song was reconsidered for use during the ATS era as well. I suppose there's a possibility that they mixed things up and put the ATS-era recording on the CD (which would be from 2010), but if they used the correct demo it's in the same category as Asbestos - probably 2006, possibly 2007.

 

Basquiat's definitely 2006, not 2007. It's tuned down half a step but played on a Strat, which was only be a characteristic found on Mike demos from early in the MTM writing process (Mike used Strats on some of the Fort Minor-era material in the old tuning, but tuning up from Db to D wasn't suggested until they got in the studio with Ethan Mates at Laurel).

 

LPU 14 - I'd say Heartburn is probably 2006, not 2007. Everything else seems correct to me.

 

LPU 15 - Attached is definitely 2002, not 2003. It's not a post-Meteora demo, as I confirmed with Sean Paden a while back that LP didn't book any studio time while on tour in 2003 (a question I originally asked in reference to the possibility of portions of Live in Texas being redone in the studio - it's all live!). I'd say Chair could potentially be a beat Mike made in 1998, but he also correctly identified Pods as being from 1998 on the same release, so I'm inclined to believe 1999 is correct for Chair.

 

LPU 16 - Dark Crystal is questionable, it uses a loop from the second Stagelight sound pack, which came out in November of 2014. However it's at a different speed than the original loop, and no other samples from that track are found in the sound pack, so the sample may have been reused later on. Bleed it Out demo is almost definitely 2006 instead of 2007. Burberry is just a shortened version of Space Station, which came out in 2012. Maybe they edited down the original in 2015 and re-titled it, but otherwise they didn't do shit to this song in the three years between when we originally got it and when it's allegedly from.

 

Also, demos released with incorrect titles:

-In the End (Demo) = Untitled

-Forgotten (Demo) = Rhinestone

-Pretty Birdy = Seen on Making of Meteora song board as "Pretty Birdie," unknown which spelling is correct

-Breaking the Habit (Original Mike Demo) = Would have still been referred to as "Drawing" at this point, but since we already got the Drawing instrumental on LPU 9, it's probably easier to differentiate between the two this way

-Bleed it Out (Demo) = Accident

-Lies Greed Misery (Demo) = Piledriver

 

Also also, numerous statements Mike made in the LPU track-by-track videos are incorrect, including Animals being an early version of Roads Untraveled (obviously untrue), and Part of Me being a Xero demo (it was not).

 

Epic post. I don't think I need to even edit my post anymore thanks to yours. Cleared up a lot of stuff.

[lpliveusername]

Wasn't Program in the Frat Party DVD (2001)?

LPU 15 - Attached is definitely 2002, not 2003. It's not a post-Meteora demo, as I confirmed with Sean Paden a while back that LP didn't book any studio time while on tour in 2003 (a question I originally asked in reference to the possibility of portions of Live in Texas being redone in the studio - it's all live!).

I was reading Mike's commentary on that song again and he said "It makes me realize how far we had come at that point in just being able to produce a song on our own, because this was entirely basically in my home studio computer." So isn't it possible that 2003 is correct?

Also also, numerous statements Mike made in the LPU track-by-track videos are incorrect, including Animals being an early version of Roads Untraveled (obviously untrue)

But then he said "It may have been just also a case where we made this song and then I liked that kind of groove of the drums and then I started a new song with that groove."

[[AndOne]]

The Program version we hear on Frat Party is from October/November 2001 or so, they had a studio bus during the Family Values Tour IIRC.

So it could be easily have been worked on into 2002 and then dropped.

[Skipees]

Thanks Astat this is great. Added to the Index (under Releases) for future references.

[Astat]

Wasn't Program in the Frat Party DVD (2001)?

I was reading Mike's commentary on that song again and he said "It makes me realize how far we had come at that point in just being able to produce a song on our own, because this was entirely basically in my home studio computer." So isn't it possible that 2003 is correct?

But then he said "It may have been just also a case where we made this song and then I liked that kind of groove of the drums and then I started a new song with that groove."

The little clean guitar loop with a simple beat behind it was on Frat Party but I doubt that was polished up to the point of what the released version sounded like before 2002, particularly considering it has live drums on it.

 

Mike had a home studio capable of recording the full band as early as the start of Reanimation-related work in late 2001. Anything labeled "The Stockroom" is Mike's home studio. I'm sure some home recording took place in 2003, but there's also pretty substantial gap between the Meteora demos we've gotten and the sporadic stuff that's been released from 2005. I'm pretty sure most of the recording Mike was doing at home in the 2003-2004 period was early Fort Minor-related stuff, and LP-related writing/recording mostly took place in the tour bus studio. I also feel like Attached doesn't really vary in sound quality from any of the other Meteora demos we've gotten. Yeah it's a more mellow track, but Breaking the Habit also came out of that period, so...

 

Yeah, I know Mike added that afterthought, but it didn't stop people from immediately jumping on the "OMG ANIMALS = ROADS UNTRAVELED DEMO" train. Granted, it's the same kind of people who legitimately believe the hidden track on the HTEP is somehow a demo of Session, so it's not like I'd expect otherwise, but still.

[Geki]

Astat, do you think ''Symphonies Of Light Reprise (2010 Demo)'' came before The Catalyst demo that we got on LPU16? Or after?

[Astat]

It's a "reprise," so it's a return to a theme established in an earlier piece of music. The Catalyst (or at least some form of it) had to come first by default.

[hahninator]

I don't disagree with anything in this thread. Really great post by Astat, and I'd say it's all factual.

 

These days as the time goes on, it seems the band just labels things as being from the year the albums came out. BIO and Attached are good examples of this, but we know better. Very few songs would get a 2003 or 2007 credit.

 

I want to reiterate the Burberry thing, I think they really fucked this one up / Mike forgot about Space Station. There is nothing noticeably different about the song and like it was stated earlier, the original was released in 2012. LP hasn't ever completely reused a full demo like that for a new album that they've already released (which we know about!), so it makes me think it could have been released to us on purpose with an incorrect date. Who knows. I doubt Mike would reply to a question about it. This is the most troubling date so far in the LPU series.

 

Lastly, I've always had a question about Pretend To Be. We know LP worked in the studio in Europe in June 2008. When else did they work on music? Is it known they recorded in a studio at all during the other parts of the year? When did they hit the studio for the ATS sessions? It sounds so different to me than these June 2008 demos we have is why I am asking the question. "The band, through the Linkin Park station on A.P.E. Radio, has said "Pretend To Be" originated from a Minutes To Midnight demo but they went back and re-recorded it in 2008."

[Astat]

My assumption with Pretend to Be is that it got the Not Alone treatment, where the music was already there and they either redid or added vocals to it later. It definitely SOUNDS like a Minutes to Midnight demo, and probably a fairly early one at that. The drums in particular have a really rough demo-ish quality to them. 2006 demo w/2008 vocals is my guess. Chester's voice also gradually got more nasally in the 06-08 time period and the vocals seem to have more of an MTM tour tone than an MTM studio tone to them.

They recorded sporadically in Europe in 2008, plus at least once in Asia when they were working on We Made It.

[TheInterframe]

Wow, amazing post Astat!

 

I want to reiterate the Burberry thing, I think they really fucked this one up / Mike forgot about Space Station. There is nothing noticeably different about the song and like it was stated earlier, the original was released in 2012. LP hasn't ever completely reused a full demo like that for a new album that they've already released (which we know about!), so it makes me think it could have been released to us on purpose with an incorrect date. Who knows. I doubt Mike would reply to a question about it. This is the most troubling date so far in the LPU series.

 

I think I either posted this on here or LPA but my theory to the whole Burberry thing Is it might have been worked on briefly in 2015, but quickly abandoned (vocals or something maybe?), and since this was probably done in a new session file, You get the 2015 date. I doubt any one in the band can remember when they did what demo, or if it was already released in some form, since they work on so many. Some people claim they can hear mixing differences in this VS. Space Station but, I'm never good at picking that stuff out.

[Garret]

to me it seems like a lot of demo dates are incorrect. its ok though you cant expect the band to remember them all so specifically. it is weird about the ''Burbery'' demo, though. if it was released with the Stagelight pack in 2012.

[Astat]

Another thought that didn't occur to me until now: What if the track isn't even Burberry at all and this is another 100 Degrees/Hive situation (when Mike uploaded the 2005 VMAs score on SoundCloud he skipped one track number and uploaded 100 Degrees with the title "Hive")? Like maybe Burberry was the intended song and they just accidentally emailed Space Station to someone who didn't know any better?

 

It would be highly unusual for an instrumental demo to be re-titled, after all.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Astat

[deanowardust]

How did the intros get cut off of LPU 9? It was only when someone got hold of the acetate that we finally heard those intros

[Garret]

Yeah I think you may be right on Burberry, Astat. Great point.

Edited April 3, 2019 by GarretLP

[Garret]

On 10/24/2018 at 7:11 AM, deanowardust said:

How did the intros get cut off of LPU 9? It was only when someone got hold of the acetate that we finally heard those intros

 

It's normal for LP or bands in general to prime something for a release. Those intros they probably felt like would be better cut out. Not sure how they got pressed onto the acetate disc and not the regular LPU9 disc, though.

[yagamilight207]

On 10/24/2018 at 7:11 PM, deanowardust said:

How did the intros get cut off of LPU 9? It was only when someone got hold of the acetate that we finally heard those intros

 

1 hour ago, GarretLP said:

 

It's normal for LP or bands in general to prime something for a release. Those intros they probably felt like would be better cut out. Not sure how they got pressed onto the acetate disc and not the regular LPU9 disc, though.

There was an long 6 pages of discussion about this. Nobody except Mike know how the intros is in the acetate.

This was Adam's reply back when everyone was doubting that the intro was sort of a glitch in the acetate.

 

 

 

[LPLStaff]

They edit a lot of the demos. Remove vocals, change structure, etc. Just how it is.