Can we talk about Emily?

[ChaseChief]

Semi-related but I feel oddly worried about the band’s safety given the hate they are receiving. I know Chester’s son Jaime got 2 tickets to their 9/11 show and we all know how unstable he is. Only god knows what he’s scheming.

 

Just digging through his Instagram and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited September 10 by ChaseChief
Re format

[xxHybridXeroxx]

5 minutes ago, ChaseChief said:

Semi-related but I feel oddly worried about the band’s safety given the hate they are receiving. I know Chester’s son Jaime got 2 tickets to their 9/11 show and we all know how unstable he is. Only god knows what he’s scheming.

 

Just digging through his Instagram and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Me too. I think someone should let LP management know about him getting tickets 

[xektro]

guys its been like 2 days, I'm sure the band will speak on it at some point 

[Soeffingnaive92]

Let’s all report Jaime’s account, so maybe Instagram will shut it down 

[martinez]

[LionHart]

I could be far off track but I feel like a bit of the backlash is also rooted in sexism against Emily along with the 'issues'. 

 

As its been mentioned a lot here she denounced him, I find the argument around the lack of using his name weird. Everyone knew who she meant. 

 

We've also seen the story of Dave Grohl this morning cheating on his wife and fathering a baby with another woman. Yet I see the discourse for him as 'we all make mistakes', 'humans are complicated'. 

 

I know they're not specifically comparable but I find it hard to believe why the response would be so vastly different. What Dave Grohl has done is an absolutely fucking shitty thing to do 

[bloodbath]

55 minutes ago, LionHart said:

I could be far off track but I feel like a bit of the backlash is also rooted in sexism against Emily along with the 'issues'. 

 

As its been mentioned a lot here she denounced him, I find the argument around the lack of using his name weird. Everyone knew who she meant. 

 

We've also seen the story of Dave Grohl this morning cheating on his wife and fathering a baby with another woman. Yet I see the discourse for him as 'we all make mistakes', 'humans are complicated'. 

 

I know they're not specifically comparable but I find it hard to believe why the response would be so vastly different. What Dave Grohl has done is an absolutely fucking shitty thing to do 

Being in a cult and trying to get out without getting everyone safe, IS complicated. Keeping your dick inside your pants isn't so difficult as it might seems.

[xektro]

Can we maybe just accept that we’re all inherently flawed and make mistakes??

 

That being said, if Emily admitted to her wrongdoing, and we just need to forgive her and move past it, and then so be it.

 

But if the band is trying to look past a really big elephant in the room, and is afraid to address it because it could put their career at stake, then they seriously need to speak up.

Edited September 11 by xektro

[xektro]

51 minutes ago, bloodbath said:

Being in a cult and trying to get out without getting everyone safe, IS complicated. Keeping your dick inside your pants isn't so difficult as it might seems.

Without turning this into a complicated argument, both might be more difficult than you could assume! Not making any justifications for people’s mistakes, but until you’re in that first person position to enter/exit a cult, and/or have an affair with someone that isn’t your spouse, judgment should be reserved I think.

Once again, not justifying any wrongdoings, but just making light of how it’s probably best to not compare different mistakes in terms of ease of avoiding, without having been there yourself, if I’m not mistaken. 

Edited September 11 by xektro

[bloodbath]

4 minutes ago, xektro said:

Without turning this into a complicated argument, both might be more difficult than you could assume! Not making any justifications for people’s mistakes, but until you’re in that first person position to enter/exit a cult, and/or have an affair with someone that isn’t your spouse, judgment should be reserved I think.

Once again, not justifying any wrongdoings, but just making light of how it’s probably best to not compare different mistakes in terms of ease of avoiding, without having been there yourself, if I’m not mistaken. 

You're absolutely right. The thing is I was trying to fight fire with fire by making mockery of double standards, but it might have sounded better in my head than in reality 

[OKCrew]

A few things:

 

1. i didn’t even realize At The Drive-In had the same singer as the Mars Volta til i read his comments

 

2. i really appreciate everyone remaining respectful and nuanced in this difficult and important discussion

 

3. The Jamie stuff definitely adds yet another layer that can be activating for ppl, so i just wanted to do a temp check on everyone’s MH/well-being

[xxHybridXeroxx]

29 minutes ago, OKCrew said:

The Jamie stuff definitely adds yet another layer that can be activating for ppl, so i just wanted to do a temp check on everyone’s MH/well-being

Better than the past few days for sure, I actually deleted my Twitter account because I couldn’t handle all the shit on there. I’m only coming here or LP / MS Discord for discussion about the band and am not reading comments on social media for the sake of my well being 

[HybridParty]

29 minutes ago, OKCrew said:

2. i really appreciate everyone remaining respectful and nuanced in this difficult and important discussion

 

Me too, this community rules.

 

30 minutes ago, OKCrew said:

3. The Jamie stuff definitely adds yet another layer that can be activating for ppl, so i just wanted to do a temp check on everyone’s MH/well-being

 

I'm kinda in this confused limbo about it all. Just waiting for answers and praying it can be settled, and not get worse.

[OKCrew]

3 hours ago, xxHybridXeroxx said:

Better than the past few days for sure, I actually deleted my Twitter account because I couldn’t handle all the shit on there. I’m only coming here or LP / MS Discord for discussion about the band and am not reading comments on social media for the sake of my well being 

Definitely glad to hear it’s better than before. I actually deleted twitter too (2 months ago, by accident) and it really helps not having that algorithm shove the absolute craziest takes in front of my face as soon as i look at my phone.

 

 

3 hours ago, HybridParty said:

 

Me too, this community rules.

 

 

I'm kinda in this confused limbo about it all. Just waiting for answers and praying it can be settled, and not get worse.

 

i relate to this hard

[Coizu]

I didn’t want to post anything about this topic until I have a very clear head about all of it, but currently I am stuck and making no progress for myself, so I thought I share my thoughts so far:

Basically the problem for me personally boils down to this:

• For me, Scientology is an evil organization. Important here: I don’t declare every single member of them as evil, I can’t judge that. But the structures, the goals and the actions of the organization as a whole are evil.
• Every celebrity that represents them in a non-negative way, normalizes that organization and gives them legitimacy. As far as I am concerned, if you are affiliated with them while speaking neither positive nor negative about them, you at least represent them in a neutral way which I think is already beneficial for the organization as it normalizes being a part of it.

Small anecdote about why I think so:
While Germany (where I live) has an extremely low population of Scientologists, they have a stronger presence in one of the cities I lived in for a couple of years (Stuttgart). Every now and then I encountered some of them handing out information about their courses and personality tests and whatever around the train station I had to go to, to get to work. Obviously I just dismissed them and kept walking.
But what if the band I am a hardcore fan of since my teenage years had a Scientologist singer? Would that have shaped my opinion in either direction? Would there have been a moment where I thought “can’t be that bad”? While it is extremely hard or rather impossible to say for sure, I think there is at least a tiny chance that I would have stopped there at least once, showed some interest and then who knows where things would have went from there. And that is already enough in my opinion.

 

So the question for myself, that also creates the most internal struggle for me, is:
Can I support and be a hardcore fan of someone that represents that non-negative affiliation I talked about in the beginning?

 

Obviously there are a lot of factors that make this whole thing more complex, like her being born into it, her attitude towards it being completely unknown, the difficulties of speaking out etc.
But in the end I want to represent and live my values, and that makes it very difficult to answer. Do I sacrifice them for music I like?

Also I think it is totally valid if this is not an issue for someone. If you completely separate the artist from the art for example, I think that’s totally fine. It’s just not how I thought for my whole life so I can’t just turn it off.

 

I am sorry if something sounds confusing or isn’t clear. I just wrote it down in one go and English isn’t my first language.

[RentEznor]

Saw Fantano's video of her just now. I knew some details but not the entire picture (so far as we all know). Yikes.

 

And Cedric Bixler's wife Chrissie posting a picture of Chester and Chris singing live in 2008 talking about how the Clinton's are directly related to them makes it even worse somehow, because if I do recall didn't the band had some kind of short interaction with them during the whole Haiti earthquake in 2010? 

[Qwerty18]

54 minutes ago, RentEznor said:

Saw Fantano's video of her just now. I knew some details but not the entire picture (so far as we all know). Yikes.

 

That video pissed me off a bit yesterday. Not the details themselves, which I already knew, but the attitude Fantano adopted. Kind of put him in the cunt category for me, honestly.

 

He lowkey took the stance she is guilty by association/not a good person,  and  openly mocked/doubted the legitimacy of her response regarding the trial case. I wouldn't really care, but the problem is when a lot of people are going to learn about the case through this dude, who is clearly biased and already made up his opinion, without saying it straight.

 

 

Edited September 11 by Qwerty18

[Justin]

6 minutes ago, Qwerty18 said:

 

That video pissed me off a bit yesterday. Not the details themselves, which I already knew, but the attitude Fantano adopted. Kind of put him in the cunt category for me, honestly.

 

He lowkey took the stance she is guilty by association/not a good person,  and  openly mocked/doubted the legitimacy of her response regarding the trial case. I wouldn't really care, but the problem is when a lot of people are going to learn about the case through this dude, who is clearly biased and already made up his opinion, without saying it straight.

 

Fantano has completely adapted to fit the majority opinion of his viewing audience. He is the living embodiment of the fauxmoi subreddit.

 

Somehow it's become that the burden of proof is on her to prove a negative, otherwise everything being said about her is true by default.

[RentEznor]

10 minutes ago, Justin said:

 

Fantano has completely adapted to fit the majority opinion of his viewing audience. He is the living embodiment of the fauxmoi subreddit.

 

Somehow it's become that the burden of proof is on her to prove a negative, otherwise everything being said about her is true by default.

 

Generally celeberity gossip means nothing to me but when these sort of serious allegations come up it's hard for me at times to care THAT much or let alone take a stance on it 100% without even thinking about it. In this case though, I can't avoid kinda caring for obvious unfortunate reasons. Anyone can make up bullshit online, regardless of which 'side' you're on, so on a serious note, I truly hope everything and everyone involved gets cleared up.

 

About Fantano, been following him for a long time and at times he indeed takes some obvious sides (sometimes justified and others confusing).

Edited September 11 by RentEznor

[Justin]

3 minutes ago, RentEznor said:

 

Generally celeberity gossip means nothing to me but when these sort of serious allegations come up it's hard for me at times to care THAT much or let alone take a stance on it 100% without even thinking about it. In this case though, I can't avoid kinda caring for obvious unfortunate reasons. Anyone can make up bullshit online, regardless of which 'side' you're on, so on a serious note, I truly hope everything and everyone involved gets cleared up.

 

About Fantano, been following him for a long time and at times he indeed takes some obvious sides (sometimes justified and others confusing).

 

I felt like her statement was clear on whether or not she supported Danny Masterson, but the internet said it was bullshit and not enough.

 

I don't know what people expected with that.

 

As far as Scientology, it's wild to me for people to say they're a dangerous cult who will threaten you, harass you, surveil you, kill your pets, etc. if you leave and speak negatively about them, and then demand that Emily herself do exactly that. 

[zerothree]

1 hour ago, Justin said:

 

I felt like her statement was clear on whether or not she supported Danny Masterson, but the internet said it was bullshit and not enough.

 

I don't know what people expected with that.

 

As far as Scientology, it's wild to me for people to say they're a dangerous cult who will threaten you, harass you, surveil you, kill your pets, etc. if you leave and speak negatively about them, and then demand that Emily herself do exactly that. 

I think I kinda understand both sides of the coin on this one.

 

I mean that dude from the Mars Volta left because he knew it was the right thing to do and as a public, that's seen as honourable. She did admit to turning up to Danny's trials to support him (which the trial finished up last year), and all of his supporters were his Scientologist crew, so I think it's fair to assume that even quite recently she's been involved in Scientology (although we now know she's cut ties to him, which I think the audience also kinda deserved to know because that one is a big one). I understand why maybe she wouldn't want to say anything but also as fans, I think there will be people that want answers to really know if the band's values align with their own.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm really into the new single, I'd definitely consider seeing them live if they came to where I'm at, but I can also see why people might feel that way. 

[HybridParty]

Could the band make a statement without denouncing them directly?

 

Something along the lines of "We as a band still advocate for mental health and support victims of sexual assault." Could that work and keep them and Emily out of hot water?

[Justin]

10 minutes ago, ToddWilliamson said:

She did admit to turning up to Danny's trials to support him (which the trial finished up last year), and all of his supporters were his Scientologist crew, so I think it's fair to assume that even quite recently she's been involved in Scientology (although we now know she's cut ties to him, which I think the audience also kinda deserved to know because that one is a big one).

 

She actually said she attended one pre-trial hearing as an observer, which is different than the claim from Cedric which is, I believe, that she attended multiple hearings and actively participated in victim intimidation.

  

7 minutes ago, HybridParty said:

Could the band make a statement without denouncing them directly?

 

Something along the lines of "We as a band still advocate for mental health and support victims of sexual assault." Could that work and keep them and Emily out of hot water?

 

I think that the people who want a statement would say that's still a cop out and not enough. It would be something, which is better than silence, and enough for a lot of people to read between the lines when it comes to Emily's current status with Scientology, but I don't think Cedric and Chrissie and the Growing Up In Scientology guy would be satisfied with it.

 

They want her to explicitly and forcefully denounce Scientology. A roundabout statement that implies that her status as an active Scientologist has changed won't be enough for them and the people who have been the most adamant on the subject.

Edited September 11 by Justin

[zerothree]

5 minutes ago, Justin said:

 

She actually said she attended one pre-trial hearing as an observer, which is different than the claim from Cedric which is, I believe, that she attended multiple hearings and actively participated in victim intimidation.

   

I mean she still attended the hearing right? And as there is no reason to believe otherwise, she attended to support a friend. Even when not giving weight to Cedric (which I don't), that's still a bad look. Her statement was literally what gave me some relief, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Yes there will be people forever upset, but that's not really who all of this is about. People were ANGRY when OML dropped. Same with MTM. There are some sick people who started insane conspiracies when Chester passed. I don't think it's helpful to acknowledge those people. I think all of this is for people who would genuinely feel at ease knowing their values align.

[Hybrid1988]

12 hours ago, Coizu said:

I didn’t want to post anything about this topic until I have a very clear head about all of it, but currently I am stuck and making no progress for myself, so I thought I share my thoughts so far:

Basically the problem for me personally boils down to this:

• For me, Scientology is an evil organization. Important here: I don’t declare every single member of them as evil, I can’t judge that. But the structures, the goals and the actions of the organization as a whole are evil.
• Every celebrity that represents them in a non-negative way, normalizes that organization and gives them legitimacy. As far as I am concerned, if you are affiliated with them while speaking neither positive nor negative about them, you at least represent them in a neutral way which I think is already beneficial for the organization as it normalizes being a part of it.

Small anecdote about why I think so:
While Germany (where I live) has an extremely low population of Scientologists, they have a stronger presence in one of the cities I lived in for a couple of years (Stuttgart). Every now and then I encountered some of them handing out information about their courses and personality tests and whatever around the train station I had to go to, to get to work. Obviously I just dismissed them and kept walking.
But what if the band I am a hardcore fan of since my teenage years had a Scientologist singer? Would that have shaped my opinion in either direction? Would there have been a moment where I thought “can’t be that bad”? While it is extremely hard or rather impossible to say for sure, I think there is at least a tiny chance that I would have stopped there at least once, showed some interest and then who knows where things would have went from there. And that is already enough in my opinion.

 

So the question for myself, that also creates the most internal struggle for me, is:
Can I support and be a hardcore fan of someone that represents that non-negative affiliation I talked about in the beginning?

 

Obviously there are a lot of factors that make this whole thing more complex, like her being born into it, her attitude towards it being completely unknown, the difficulties of speaking out etc.
But in the end I want to represent and live my values, and that makes it very difficult to answer. Do I sacrifice them for music I like?

Also I think it is totally valid if this is not an issue for someone. If you completely separate the artist from the art for example, I think that’s totally fine. It’s just not how I thought for my whole life so I can’t just turn it off.

 

I am sorry if something sounds confusing or isn’t clear. I just wrote it down in one go and English isn’t my first language.

 

A very measured take. Can't say I disagree with any of this.