Wil_Vincent Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) OK mark I got you ansd Ant confused... I know thats a criminal offence in some countries, so I spologise.. The point still remains however.... I don't see how ANYONE can go by an audience recording..... A recording doesn't give the smell of piss mixed in with crappy burger vans, show the sights, or capture the atmosphere. You need to understand the layout of Knebworth, as it's a pretty wierd one... If your at the back, your either in front of the second stage, of one of the people chilling on the hill (Download had about 20K people just chilling on deck chairs)... Now after BFMV, who are one of the biggest UK metal bands going atm, so many people there were just knackered ( I would have been, but I was a lucky bugger and got on stage,) and with water being in small supply (I'll NEVER pay £2 for a bottle of water, especially one made by those arseholes Coca Cola), so many people were just knackered. Remember also that there are a second set of speakers just behind the sounddesk, which is about 100M back.. Now if you recorded here, you'd have a really loud speaker, with much less dense crowd which equals... Less crowd noise I meant the APFMH which was over the end of POA... We were already mental after POa and to go into APFMH, it's almost like Slayer with their moses like "Point and the crowd will split" moments.... And again... WHY do people make such a big deal over audience recordings? What people are doing here, is screwing money out of LP. It's like buying a fake LP T-Shirt outside a gig, where LP get NOTHING out of it.... Pay your money (Or in some cases, be lucky and win tickets, get given them, or just walk in), and HAVE FUN at a gig, not worry about if your gonna get kudos for recording. Why should the first thing some people said to me after they found out I was going to SS be "Record it"??? Sort out your priortites people.. If your going to the gig, goto the gig for the music, not for kudos..... Otherwise I'll pick up your tent at the next festival I'm at at the same time as you, and move you to Camp Youtube.....(Thats a joke, not a threat) Edited August 7, 2009 by Wil_Vincent Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkramar Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 And again... WHY do people make such a big deal over audience recordings? What people are doing here, is screwing money out of LP. I make a big deal over audience recordings because I pay damn good money for the ticket as well as my gear to do it, as do a lot of other tapers. Who the fuck are you to tell me that I'm screwing LP out of money when I've probably invested more in LP tickets, merch, etc over the years than I've put into maintaining my car? In case you've forgotten, this site was built to catalog those audience recordings and the band themselves have essentially given us the thumbs up for the work we do here. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil_Vincent Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 What so you'd rather NOT pay the tenner for the DSP? Just remember how much money Live Nation (In most cases here anyway), the venue, the support bands etc get, then how much LP end up getting.... If anything, I'd support LP having a site charging a fiver for any DSP theyeve ever done, and that would make life a lot better.... And wasting two hours at a gig to record it, to then moan about lack of atmosphere wins my award for contradiction of the month... Like a quote says "go out there, rock hard and sell abunch of T-Shirts so we can eat" And there's been a load of mis-quoting, and "Interpretations" on that whole Audience recording line, so don't take me down that route.... Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkramar Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 What so you'd rather NOT pay the tenner for the DSP? Just remember how much money Live Nation (In most cases here anyway), the venue, the support bands etc get, then how much LP end up getting.... If anything, I'd support LP having a site charging a fiver for any DSP theyeve ever done, and that would make life a lot better.... And wasting two hours at a gig to record it, to then moan about lack of atmosphere wins my award for contradiction of the month... Like a quote says "go out there, rock hard and sell abunch of T-Shirts so we can eat" And there's been a load of mis-quoting, and "Interpretations" on that whole Audience recording line, so don't take me down that route.... What you see as a waste, I see as an advantage as I've got a very personal documentation of a show I attended. It's a waste to me these days to see anyone thrashing around in a mosh pit rather than enjoying the performance, a waste to sit and talk during a band's set, a waste to get piss drunk and not remember a show, a waste - in short - to do anything less than sit back and enjoy the performance. And yes, tapers in general are very critical of their own and other tapes, but we're weird like that. It's all the others who download this stuff and then complain when all the know and want are the DSPs. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil_Vincent Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 so in essence, you'e idea of a perfect gig is everyone singing along, and recording the gig..... Thats your opinion, and your entitled to it... Depending on the band I have different opinions on how I live my experience for the band. Like Alter Bridge last year, I spent the whole set gawping trying not to have an explosion in my pants. The Progidy was a mini rave, and Lamb og God, well would you argue with tem demandin a pit??? My problem centres around DSP's. If you want to record the performance for you, put a tenner in an envelope and send it to the band, then thats fine, cause the band then still get something from it..Or being a true socialist, what you feel you can give. However, peopple who have 40, 50GB of live audio, and give nothing to the band, and are the ones who refuse to buy the DSP, cause "They'll get it for free".. Thats just harsh... It's like not buying RTR, because a ip of the DVD and the audio exists.... And yes I know people who have that reasoning.. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkramar Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 so in essence, you'e idea of a perfect gig is everyone singing along, and recording the gig..... Thats your opinion, and your entitled to it... Depending on the band I have different opinions on how I live my experience for the band. Like Alter Bridge last year, I spent the whole set gawping trying not to have an explosion in my pants. The Progidy was a mini rave, and Lamb og God, well would you argue with tem demandin a pit??? Correct - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But this is a discussion of LP shows, not Alter Bridge or the Prodigy. When was the last time we've heard the 'when someone falls down, pick them up' at an LP show? It's fairly noticeable to me that LP have dropped several pit-worthy songs in the last couple of years (Runaway, Forgotten, With You and APFMH) and inserted some for which a pit would just be strange (SOTD, In Pieces, TLTGYA). This is NOT the same band from 2001 playing those high energy, 30 to 40 minute sets. The fans are getting older too and many of us have already or are learning to appreciate their musical talents far exceeding what they showed early on with tracks like OSC and ITE. My problem centres around DSP's. If you want to record the performance for you, put a tenner in an envelope and send it to the band, then thats fine, cause the band then still get something from it..Or being a true socialist, what you feel you can give. However, peopple who have 40, 50GB of live audio, and give nothing to the band, and are the ones who refuse to buy the DSP, cause "They'll get it for free".. Thats just harsh... It's like not buying RTR, because a ip of the DVD and the audio exists.... And yes I know people who have that reasoning.. If the band were selling these online like Metallica does - anyone can purchase every show - then I'd agree with you. But early on after the announcement of DSPs for PR 07, it was made fairly clear that these would be sold solely at the venue in question in limited quantities and not online after the fact. Further, Mike alluded to wanting fans to be able to trade and share the the DSPs much the way we do the audience sources. Do I have proof of this other than a vague post that may or may not have been on his blog? Sure - this site still exists. LPLive routinely shares both information on how/where to get the DSPs when released and audience recordings when they surface and we're still here and have not been issued cease and desist orders by the band or its representatives. We know we're in the sights of band management - but we keep our noses clean, don't allow official materials to be shared on our forums and we've gained the trust of a few, I'm guessing, proved by our having been allowed to release 'She Couldn't' when we got it. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil_Vincent Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) On a fun note firsat there Kinda was a pit for LOATH, mainly as we had a wall of death set up for aPFMH, which didn';t finish... Secondly, The 'when someone falls down, pick them up' is the first rule of moshing. You shouldn't need to hear that line, cause it's worldwide Rule No1. I'm disgusted that at some Pits I've been in, that sort of thing doesn't happen. if someones in a pit with me, and they ignore the poor kid who's fallen over, I'd go fucking mental with that person, cause their just being a cock. Even worse, what we have in these days, is people pushing to the front, and it led oton one of my mates' girlfriends (Amonghst many others) having to be pulled out. Now for those people at the barrier, their life is nhell now, but you never heard the "Don't push people you cocks" line did you Well, it's my personal opinion over DSP's, and if you've just recorded a gig, would you buy he DSP at the same show? Chances are no. Now imagine if 5 people do that at every gig, cause they have either Audio or Visual recordins, then another say 10 people don't because they know "Someone will post it". Thats 15 people, or £150. Make that over the course of a full tour, with say 30 shows, thats a total of £4500. May not be a lot, but now imagine that every year, every tour.. Your starting to look at tens, hundreds of thousands of pounds. Money which, if was given to the band may end up somewhere useful, like I dunno. MFR. Yes, I'm linkin a lot of different situations here, but I'm just painting a picture. Because that 15 is gonna be a lot more than 15, and I'd put up the case for LP to ACTUALLY have an online DSP store, with 50% of the profits going to MFR. Now someone go ahead and tell me I'm being unreasonable there...... Edited August 8, 2009 by Wil_Vincent Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkramar Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 On a fun note firsat there Kinda was a pit for LOATH, mainly as we had a wall of death set up for aPFMH, which didn';t finish... Secondly, The 'when someone falls down, pick them up' is the first rule of moshing. You shouldn't need to hear that line, cause it's worldwide Rule No1. LP used to say it nightly. Unwritten/unsaid rule or not, they've effectively dropped it. In the last couple of years, both Mike and Chester have been pretty vocal in interviews stating that they are not the angsty, angry band they once were and people expecting them to be that will be disappointed because they've moved on. Well, it's my personal opinion over DSP's, and if you've just recorded a gig, would you buy he DSP at the same show? Chances are no. Now imagine if 5 people do that at every gig... I've purchased the DSPs for both LP shows I've attended since they first went on sale during PR 07. While I only taped one of those two shows, I intended to tape the other but ran into some problems. Mark purchased DSPs for the the shows he taped last year. Most of the tapers I know purchase DSPs because we're fans of the band. You're not going to get some random taper at a show - Those of us that tape are fans first and tapers because we're fans. As for your argument of an exponentially increasing supply chain for audience recordings? Please. Outside of the few hundred people who may download a torrent from dime, people at these shows are basically clueless to the trading and distribution of audience recordings. Add to that the limited number of those of us willing to and able to tape and you're bound to see only one or two recordings per show at best. That certainly can't compete with the signs at the merch booths saying 'Buy tonight's show here' or the announcements online of DSPs being sold. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil_Vincent Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) Last point first... If there was a link on Lp.com to a DSP store, and also the info that if PPl cant buy the show there and then (I have trouble affording them at times), then people who was not aware could then buy it. When RTR came out, HMV and Zavvi in MK sopld out countless times, as people didn't realise they did this anyway, and it wouldn't be difficult to add "You can buy the recording online / at the show onto the back of the ticket), it's all down to advertising, which LP could very easily work with the venues with to acheive..... As well as ticketmaster etc etc. How difficult would it be for them to send an email 2 weeks later saying "Did you like the show" click here to buy a recording... Also, the band may not be as angry, but the fans are... And I can name at least half the set which is "Mosh capable".. The other half is singalong.. Perfect!!! I get time to recover! You do get random tapers at show. There was one at Sonisphere, who was recording all th bands... He was quickly moved to camp youtube....I'm not against recording for personal use, but I'm sure at the end of the day, the reason why DSP's exist is to allow tapers to... Um.. Not worry about having to tape it... Multiple versions of the same things will only confuse people at times, and also, be one of the reasons WHY LP don't do a tallica And on the moshing rule.... I don't see why a band has to remind people to pick people up.... You learn VERY quickly.... I'd prefer them to say "Don't be a prick and crush those at the front", simply because, in this country at least, we know the laws of moshing off by heart (Mind we don't just have silly circle pits.... Some people must have really good muscles on the left of their neck, due to running anti clockwise all the time)..... *ends Quip at some moshing groups* Edited August 8, 2009 by Wil_Vincent Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahninator Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 the reason why DSP's exist is to allow tapers to... Um.. Not worry about having to tape it Which is why I didn't tape the German shows but why we needed a taper for Sonisphere. Feels good coming home to hear a recording of the show you went to, right? Hilarious how you say we're screwing over the band by taping when LP supports us sharing the shows and thinks it's cool we record shows that there aren't DSPs for so fans can hear them that both went to the shows and also ones that collect them and compare one show to another. LP doesn't consider that screwing them over and the fans don't, but you do. Interesting. Your other point is invalid too because every LP taper I've met personally and every one I've ASKED online about it has said they bought the DSP for the shows. I buy them for every show I go to, Nick does, every taper I've organized since 2007 has, etc. Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Wilson Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Right I'm gonna end this - Wil I see where you are coming from with the taping it and such, but as there wasn't a DSP for Sonisphere, I'll make do with an audience recording (that is very good!) I'd be in the pit anyday over recording a show, but it's not everyone's preference. And yes admittedly the recording does not show off the crowd's actual response to LP but it captures the music very well and I think Chester is far better than last year! At the end of the day if you listen to the recording properly you'll notice the few comments from Chester and Mike about the crowd which makes you realise that the recording isn't the best interpetation of the crowd, but not to worry I was there and I know it was insane as do you! And yes i'd rather have a DSP 'cause the quality is great but it's not always possible - however I do have the sonisphere USB wristband and there should be one or two HQ things on there when they get round to uploading it Also if they show LP on the Channel 4 show providing someone rips it which I'm sure they will then people will realise how crazy the crowd was providing they don't show slow songs Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-32289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgr Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) I am totally necro-posting here but I want to clear up about few things about this hilarious thread. I was front row for the entire LP saturday, and everyone around me was singing really loudly throughout pretty much the whole set. I don't think any other band got that kind of attention from everyone, altough, granted this is from one small segment of the crowd - and let's face it, I wasn't paying full attention. I did not get a sense of the crowd moving about/moshing alot, since I didn't feel at any point like I was being crushed or moved about or anything. there were certainly a couple of crowdsurfers - two guys dressed as native americans paddling a dingy over the crowd being the higlight. but like i say, the audience didn't feel "crazy" to any extent. on that note, DBS should not have been in LP's encore. they killed the vibe alot, much as I enjoyed watching them, there were alot of people who were'n't into it. they were not bottled or anything, but the crowd was understandably quiet during their slot - no-one knows the words or song, no-one's going to jump about or sing. LP has a lot of casual uk fans, and i doubt alot of them were that interested in a side-project. I quite enjoyed DBS because I was really interested in all the hype, but some friends i met at uni who'd also been at this gig (small world eh?) had been stood nearer the bacl and were in amongst a bunch of people who, they said, seemed "bored" by DBS. my friends even thought that Crawl Back In was the band covering Song 2 by Blur and started dancing about going "woo-hoo!" to it before realising their mistake EDIT: they were also not advertised in any way other than through word of mouth, so anyone who wasn't following what LP were up to in the lead up to the show wouldn't have known, and it would have seemed strange. but like I say, they weren't bottled or booed, they were just sort of... watched. and on that bottling note, most bottlers don't piss in the thing before throwing, the only time I've ever seen bottles (or anything for that matter) was at "Fact" (Sonisphere '09) by fans angry that Coheed and Cambria had to be moved to Bohemia since their ferry was delayed, and at Bring Me The Horizon (sonisphere 2010) because everyone seems to think oli sykes is a dick... but I've never seen anyone piss in one. chester's comment about wanting to top muse and take the "best live band title" following their performance was an oversight on his part. this was my first gig and my first time seeing LP, but the friend I went with had been at MK bowl '08. and she'd said that the sonisphere didn't feel as special as MK had. the two of us noticed how little the band spoke, I can't remember how i felt about the setlist at the time because that wasn't really something that bothered me, i remember wishing they'd played TLTGYA. but i understood that as a festival show (with the aforementioned casual fans) this wasn't going to be a reality. I think the point is that any uk festival show for LP, is going to have a vast amount of diversity among fans. I can understand people saying that Stuttgart was better, because LP has a much bigger, more dedicated fan base there who'll be willing to show up to festivals specifially for LP, not like soni '09 where you got alot of families coming along for Heaven and Hell for example. as with any festival show, for any band - the keen ones will be near the front, and the less interested fans will be nearer the sound desk and the back. the taper at this show was definitely stood near the back because people were only really clapping at songs etc., down where i was, it was more about cheering and making lots of noise for the band. it's easy to get mixed reviews from festival shows for this reason, but it's fair to say that this was not the best LP show by any stretch of the imagination. the channel 4 broadcast was faily average, and i didn't see any of the vids fomr the USB wristband (I lost it in my house...). the audience recording is muffled as hell and to be honest, does not give an accurate representation of the crowd reception for the band that night, it's good to have at least a full recording, but it is a little disappointing that it makes LP seem... not badly received, but makes the crowd seem somewhat nonchalant... I saw a lot of LP/LPU shirts and alot of other people who were sort of "camping out" down the front with us, so it's not like no-one was that bothered by LP being there, but sonisphere was a relatively diverse festival, with alot of families, and different kinds of music fans. in all, LP at Sonisphere was built up a little too heavily, and there were a few let downs (pardon the pun) which made it an enjoyable show, but not one that'll go down in history. MK is still tops I hope this settles some stuff. Edited April 17, 2012 by LGraham Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-159839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearOfTheDuck Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I was there and agree with pretty much everything she said (except I was in the pit...) Of the three times I've seen the band, Sonisphere was easily their weakest performance. Dead by Sunrise killed the atmosphere COMPLETELY. Though it did provide my favourite drunken stranger comment of the weekend, "where the fuck did Mike Bennoda go?" Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-159873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOHAIL_Lq Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 01-08-2009 the best show of 2009 after summer sonic shows,awesome crowd I hear some people laughing in twitter about the fact LP wantedd to be the best band live before mUse. Was it a good show? Better than MK? that was the best show of 2009/2010/2011 Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-174823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgr Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 01-08-2009 the best show of 2009 after summer sonic shows,awesome crowd that was the best show of 2009/2010/2011 1. why thank you. however, 2. I beg to differ, the band seemed a bit bored in my opinion. I'm sure they topped that performance somewhere (and probably often) within '10-'11 Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-174840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOHAIL_Lq Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 1. why thank you. however, 2. I beg to differ, the band seemed a bit bored in my opinion. I'm sure they topped that performance somewhere (and probably often) within '10-'11 who said "Thankyou"????????????? well the proshot I watched,chester's voice was awesome,crowd was alive,& it's the 2nd show of lp,whose dsp I want at any cost,but it wasn't released,1st one summer sonic 2006,DSP thing got started later this show ,this wasn't the best,but it's was awesome show,I'm talking about the proshot part I watched Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-174861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgr Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 who said "Thankyou"????????????? well the proshot I watched,chester's voice was awesome,crowd was alive,& it's the 2nd show of lp,whose dsp I want at any cost,but it wasn't released,1st one summer sonic 2006,DSP thing got started later this show ,this wasn't the best,but it's was awesome show,I'm talking about the proshot part I watched I was saying thanks because I was part of that "alive" crowd. "why thank you" is an expression. and yeah, I liked the pro-shots, I'd love to see a full pro audio/video surface one day, but I doubt it'll happen Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-174873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOHAIL_Lq Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I was saying thanks because I was part of that "alive" crowd. "why thank you" is an expression. and yeah, I liked the pro-shots, I'd love to see a full pro audio/video surface one day, but I doubt it'll happen oh ok,well proshot only gets released once in life lol Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-174890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueSoul Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 oh ok,well proshot only gets released once in life lolMore like once a month.... Quote Link to comment https://lplive.net/forums/topic/2023-knebworth-post-show-discussion/page/4/#findComment-179409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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