Post-Meteora Hahn Scratches

[OKCrew]

Something I have thought about ever since the release of Minutes to Midnight, but never discussed with anyone before, is how Joe's role evolved over the years. When M2M was released, there was so much sheer change in the band's music to unpack, but I only noticed maybe one message board touch specifically on the absence of the sound of Joe scratching. ATS moved even further into experimental territory (rightfully so), but again one could really only audibly make out the turntable scratches on two tracks. Fortunately, Joe is great at incorporating his trademark cuts and blends into live versions of songs that don't have them in their studio counterparts (audibly at least), but by my count, there has only been a total 4 studio tracks in Linkin Park's latter decade to include Mr. Hahn's trademark scratching:

 

1. What I've Done

2. In Pieces

3. The Catalyst

4. Wretches & Kings

 

Have I missed any? I'm a huge fan of the live version of Lost in the Echo, but it sounds like in the studio version, Chester's bridge vocals are cut up by a sampler and not an actual turntable. 

 

Also want to clarify this is not a complaint by any means, just an observation. Living Things, Hunting Party, and One More Light are all amazing albums, and Joe continues to contribute in the multitude of ways he always has, but turntablism has always been such a cool element of Linkin Park and music in general, and we see less of it everyday.

[sordomuda]

Interesting topic! I think you are correct right now i cant think of any other album version song. 

[Garret]

Joe does awesome scratches on Announcement Service Public too, when the heavy guitar part kicks in. It’s actually one of my favorite songs that utilizes him, ever. It’s one of my favorite LP songs of all time actually. It’s always forgotten about and never talked about.

 

But yeah, I can hear him on WID, but that one is obvious. Is he on In Pieces? That’s cool. I think he may do something on Valentine’s Day and TLTGYA too but they are buried in the mix. 
 

I feel like Joe’s scratching was a big part of the band’s sound prior to MTM. Even though it was rarely discussed. It wasn’t too much. It was just enough. But it was uniquely LP. I guess since MTM was kind of more of an alt. rock type sounding album that maybe it didn’t really go well with it. I remember Mike saying on the MTM DVD that he tried putting rap stuff on songs but he thought it sounded cheesy. Maybe that’s the case for the scratching. But he does do some stuff on MTM. I can’t hear him on ATS even though you provided  songs. As far as LT, THP and OML go, I don’t think he is even on those albums. Lol.

[OKCrew]

8 hours ago, sordomuda said:

Interesting topic! I think you are correct right now i cant think of any other album version song. 

 

Thanks! Definitely gratifying knowing I'm not crazy to think it's interesting to bring up lol

 

53 minutes ago, Garret said:

Joe does awesome scratches on Announcement Service Public too, when the heavy guitar part kicks in. It’s actually one of my favorite songs that utilizes him, ever. It’s one of my favorite LP songs of all time actually. It’s always forgotten about and never talked about.

 

But yeah, I can hear him on WID, but that one is obvious. Is he on In Pieces? That’s cool. I think he may do something on Valentine’s Day and TLTGYA too but they are buried in the mix. 
 

I feel like Joe’s scratching was a big part of the band’s sound prior to MTM. Even though it was rarely discussed. It wasn’t too much. It was just enough. But it was uniquely LP. I guess since MTM was kind of more of an alt. rock type sounding album that maybe it didn’t really go well with it. I remember Mike saying on the MTM DVD that he tried putting rap stuff on songs but he thought it sounded cheesy. Maybe that’s the case for the scratching. But he does do some stuff on MTM. I can’t hear him on ATS even though you provided  songs. As far as LT, THP and OML go, I don’t think he is even on those albums. Lol.

 

I loved the whole LPU 6 CD myself! QWERTY (Studio) was also epic. He's def on In Pieces, in an actually very similar fashion to how he is on WID (a scratch or 2 every other measure or so). I agree that there are some record/vinyl-type sounds on the two M2M tracks you mentioned, as well as on Wake, but not the kind of scratching I was initially looking for. And I definitely think you're right that Mike, Joe, and the rest were specifically trying to move away from nu-Metal elements, including Joe's trademark distorted turntables, as much as possible (and probably would sound cheesy on the tracks we got blessed with). As for ATS, the turntables actually return to a more prominent role in my opinion (at least on the two tracks you can hear them). Catalyst has them in the intro and throughout, and then Wretches & King has that sick turntable solo at the end. I'll never forget when they released it as a promo a few days before ATS dropped. I went straight to my car to blast it for my first listen. I never forgot hearing that solo come in for the first time. I lost my damn mind lol

[sordomuda]

Are you a DJ or so that you are so passionate about it? 

[Garret]

1 hour ago, OKCrew said:

 

Thanks! Definitely gratifying knowing I'm not crazy to think it's interesting to bring up lol

 

 

I loved the whole LPU 6 CD myself! QWERTY (Studio) was also epic. He's def on In Pieces, in an actually very similar fashion to how he is on WID (a scratch or 2 every other measure or so). I agree that there are some record/vinyl-type sounds on the two M2M tracks you mentioned, as well as on Wake, but not the kind of scratching I was initially looking for. And I definitely think you're right that Mike, Joe, and the rest were specifically trying to move away from nu-Metal elements, including Joe's trademark distorted turntables, as much as possible (and probably would sound cheesy on the tracks we got blessed with). As for ATS, the turntables actually return to a more prominent role in my opinion (at least on the two tracks you can hear them). Catalyst has them in the intro and throughout, and then Wretches & King has that sick turntable solo at the end. I'll never forget when they released it as a promo a few days before ATS dropped. I went straight to my car to blast it for my first listen. I never forgot hearing that solo come in for the first time. I lost my damn mind lol

Yeah the LPU6 CD is a classic. At the time that it dropped it was fucking awesome to 16 year old me. Loved ASP and Qwerty studio version, and the live tracks were really great with Qwerty live and RME. PMA was also cool because this was late 2006 before we got so many recordings of it in 2007/2008 plus the one from 2006 is slightly different and better. BTH is actually very good from Japan 2006 too. Japan 2006 is the best the band has ever sounded live next to PR04.

 

But yeah, I totally forgot the scratches on the intro to The Catalyst. Wow. I never listen to ATS so that’s probably why. I bet if I threw it on I could hear some Joe stuff.

[OKCrew]

2 hours ago, Garret said:

Yeah the LPU6 CD is a classic. At the time that it dropped it was fucking awesome to 16 year old me. Loved ASP and Qwerty studio version, and the live tracks were really great with Qwerty live and RME. PMA was also cool because this was late 2006 before we got so many recordings of it in 2007/2008 plus the one from 2006 is slightly different and better. BTH is actually very good from Japan 2006 too. Japan 2006 is the best the band has ever sounded live next to PR04.

 

But yeah, I totally forgot the scratches on the intro to The Catalyst. Wow. I never listen to ATS so that’s probably why. I bet if I threw it on I could hear some Joe stuff.

Reading My Eyes that was so fire!!! I never heard it live before. Summer Sonic 06 was just epic in general. That piano version of PMA. That's what clinched "Bennoda" being our gen's Lennon/McCartney for me. 

[Garret]

20 minutes ago, OKCrew said:

Reading My Eyes that was so fire!!! I never heard it live before. Summer Sonic 06 was just epic in general. That piano version of PMA. That's what clinched "Bennoda" being our gen's Lennon/McCartney for me. 

Yup, agreed fully. 

[OKCrew]

6 hours ago, sordomuda said:

Are you a DJ or so that you are so passionate about it? 

 

Sorry I missed this comment somehow. Not a DJ, just a really big fan of the art. Was a big Run-DMC/Jam Master Jay fan in elementary school, and then in middle school got into Linkin Park, Dilated Peoples, and the X-Ecutioners at around the same time, and the one thing they all had in common was turntablism. I still follow DJ Babu and he's still putting out amazing stuff and trying to keep the art alive with his "Beat Junkies Online DJ School." I think the problem is it's way more expensive (and niche) to be an OG DJ than it was when the technique was created and times just change. The fact Linkin Park was even doing it in 2010 was amazing

[OKCrew]

I’m waking this thread back up because in addition to the 4 listed in the OP and “Announcement Public Service” as @Garret pointed out, I can’t believe I forgot to mention Not Alone for it’s scratching in the outro.

 

Also I’m admittedly not very well-versed in the LPU discs 12 and beyond. Were there any MTM/ATS/LT demos that also had scratching? I’m def gonna binge them all myself but just wondering if any stood out to anyone else

Edited February 15, 2021 by OKCrew

[JZLP-Benningstrong]

someone should create a list of songs w scratching

[OKCrew]

8 minutes ago, JZ-AmendsStripped29 said:

someone should create a list of songs w scratching

 

I mean that's almost what I'm doing. The thing is, before Minutes To Midnight it would be easier to compile a list of songs that don't have scratching. Almost all of Hybrid Theory, Meteora, and their remix/live counterparts include it.

 

That's why I added the qualifier of "Post-Meteora" because that was a turning point for Joe and the rest of the band in terms of how they wanted to incorporate it into studio recordings (he still added scratches to live versions of LITE and other songs). Maybe that would be a fun list too. Like which songs after Meteora did they add scratches to for live versions that didn't have them on the album (besides LITE)?

[Soeffingnaive92]

3 hours ago, OKCrew said:

 

I mean that's almost what I'm doing. The thing is, before Minutes To Midnight it would be easier to compile a list of songs that don't have scratching. Almost all of Hybrid Theory, Meteora, and their remix/live counterparts include it.

 

That's why I added the qualifier of "Post-Meteora" because that was a turning point for Joe and the rest of the band in terms of how they wanted to incorporate it into studio recordings (he still added scratches to live versions of LITE and other songs). Maybe that would be a fun list too. Like which songs after Meteora did they add scratches to for live versions that didn't have them on the album (besides LITE)?

In my remains ? It had a weirder intro IIRC. 

[LPsMart]

4 hours ago, OKCrew said:

he still added scratches to live versions of LITE

there's very subtle scratching on the studio version too. they did that usual manipulation stuff with an MPC and then Joe scratched it up.

[OKCrew]

8 hours ago, PurpleFlinstoneVitamins92 said:

In my remains ? It had a weirder intro IIRC. 

In the live version? I think that was just messing around with synthesizers, but maybe. I’ll go back and watch.

 

EDIT: Hahn is definitely doing some cool synth stuff but not actually scratching, at least in this rendition: 

 

 

6 hours ago, LPsMart said:

there's very subtle scratching on the studio version too. they did that usual manipulation stuff with an MPC and then Joe scratched it up.

 

Wow then it’s extremely subtle cuz it just sounds like pure MPC to me on the studio version. Did they show this in the Making of Living Things or say that’s what they did in an interview?

EDIT: This reviewer also seems to hear scratching during the bridge of LITE. I’ll go back and listen again cuz it still just sounds like pure MPC to me. Either way he def does it live which is honestly cooler anyway http://www.immortalreviews.com/home/2017/2/16/how-linkin-parks-living-things-proved-they-are-the-most-versatile-band-ever

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by OKCrew

[LPsMart]

13 minutes ago, OKCrew said:

EDIT: Hahn is definitely doing some cool synth stuff but not actually scratching, at least in this rendition:

that's on the album too but way down in the mix, here it's just not mixed well

 

14 minutes ago, OKCrew said:

Wow then it’s extremely subtle cuz it just sounds like pure MPC to me on the studio version. Did they show this in the Making of Living Things or say that’s what they did in an interview?

check the multitracks, you can hear it pretty clearly

[Soeffingnaive92]

53 minutes ago, LPsMart said:

that's on the album too but way down in the mix, here it's just not mixed well

 

check the multitracks, you can hear it pretty clearly

In the beginning it sounds similar to scratching to me but it could easily be what you say. 

[OKCrew]

2 hours ago, LPsMart said:

that's on the album too but way down in the mix, here it's just not mixed well

 

check the multitracks, you can hear it pretty clearly

 

Okay I hear what you’re saying now. It reminds me of what they did on Blackout (which I’m realizing also has much clearer scratching in its live version). On both of those songs really hard to tell if there’s any actual “scratching” going on in the studio versions because the vocals are so clearly chopped and manipulated by an MPC with an occasional “scratch” sound thrown in, which still sounds more like an effect added to the vocals than anything done with a turntable, but I could be just getting too picky at this point lol 😂 

[bruh009]

List of LP songs that have scratch:

 

Hybrid Theory:

Papercut

One Step Closer

With You

Points Of Authority

Crawling

Runaway

By Myself

Forgotten

A Place For My Head

Cure For The Itch

 

Meteora

Dont Stay

Somewhere I Belong

Lying From You

Hit The Floor

Easier To Run

Figure.09

Breaking The Habit

From The Inside

Nobody's Listening

Session

Numb

 

Minutes To midnight

What I've Done

In Pieces

A Thousand Suns

When They Come For Me (burried in the mix)

Wretches And Kings

The Catalyst

 

Living Things

Lost In The Echo

 

Hunting Party

None

 

One More Light

None

 

Feel free to add something if i missed any song, but i think thats all of them

[JZLP-Benningstrong]

Very interesting list thanks for your work man

 

What about demos? and b sides? would be cool to have a complete list 

Edited March 2, 2021 by JZ-AmendsStripped29

[YRQRM0]

Kinda weird to realize there's none on THP, but I guess not. 

 

Don't forget of course his DJ sets during THP tour where he did some scratching over a mix/mash of a lot of LP beats, if you're also interested in prominent live scratches that is:

 

 
Also, my gut tells me there's some buried in Skin to Bone, but I can't make it out clearly enough to be confident lol. There are so many harsh sounds/synths there, I could definitely imagine it fitting in. Especially because I had no idea how much grit Chester was putting into some of the BG vocals until we got the acapella. 

[bruh009]

22 minutes ago, YRQRM0 said:

Don't forget of course his DJ sets during THP tour where he did some scratching over a mix/mash of a lot of LP beats, if you're also interested in prominent live scratches that is

 

Also, my gut tells me there's some buried in Skin to Bone, but I can't make it out clearly enough to be confident lol. There are so many harsh sounds/synths there, I could definitely imagine it fitting in. Especially because I had no idea how much grit Chester was putting into some of the BG vocals until we got the acapella. 

 

Wait, i'm considering scratchs only... of course Mr.Hahn has another roles in every song, he plays a big role in A Thousand Suns and Living Things, specially live since he play's strings / additional instruments.

 

THP is more raw but he's present too with some strings, rebellion for example has "strings" buried in the mix.

 

 

About Skin to bone, nope, nothing. I thought i was going to hear something in Unitl It Breaks too but nothing, unfortunately

 

[OKCrew]

On 3/1/2021 at 4:58 PM, bruh009 said:

List of LP songs that have scratch:

 

Hybrid Theory:

Papercut

One Step Closer

With You

Points Of Authority

Crawling

Runaway

By Myself

Forgotten

A Place For My Head

Cure For The Itch

 

Meteora

Dont Stay

Somewhere I Belong

Lying From You

Hit The Floor

Easier To Run

Figure.09

Breaking The Habit

From The Inside

Nobody's Listening

Session

Numb

 

Minutes To midnight

What I've Done

In Pieces

A Thousand Suns

When They Come For Me (burried in the mix)

Wretches And Kings

The Catalyst

 

Living Things

Lost In The Echo

 

Hunting Party

None

 

One More Light

None

 

Feel free to add something if i missed any song, but i think thats all of them

Wow! Perfect 👌 I didn’t even know there were scratches on WTCFM. Yes of course Hahn does other things besides scratch, and even incorporates the use of turntables without scratching (like the sounds on Valentines Day), but the point of this thread is scratching.

 

I actually haven’t had a chance to listen through all LPU CDs (and my intent wasn’t even to look before LPU 6 because I originally wanted to just do post-Meteora), but HT EP def has scratches as do others in the 1st 5 LPU CDs). I’m in the middle of LPU15 now and so far the only post-Meteora scratches from LPU CDs I recognize so far are:

1. Announcement Service Public (LPU 6)

2. Bunker (LPU 12)

 

also Not Alone of the first DTD album

Edited March 4, 2021 by OKCrew

[bruh009]

On 3/4/2021 at 6:30 PM, OKCrew said:

I actually haven’t had a chance to listen through all LPU CDs

 

Well, lets see... I don't have all LPU albums since i'm not a member, so i'm giving this one based on Linkin Pedia tracklists and Youtube

 

LPU songs (demos) that have scratch (and some random comments lol)

 

LPU 1

Carousel

Technique (Short)

Step Up

And One

High Voltage

Part Of Me

(So, basically the entire CD)

 

LPU 2

A.06

With You Live (so, yeah)

Pts.Of.Athrty (Crystal Method Remix) (Based on Pts.Of.Athrty so....)

Dedicated

High Voltage Live (don't know wich version, but it should have so...)

My December (Same above, if thats the HT EP version, there's scratches)

 

LPU 3 (Live In Texas Songs)

Don't Stay

Figure.09

With You

By Myself

A Place For My Head

 

LPU 4

Sold My Soul To Your MAMA (that's such a good title lol)

Breaking The Habit Live

Stading In The Middle

Step Up/Nobody's Listening/It's Goin' Down Live (This one is basically Mr.Hahn showing off)

Wish Live

One Step Closer Live

 

LPU 5 (LP Vs Jay Z Show)

Somewhere I Belong

Breaking The Habit

Dirt Off Your Shoulder/Lying From

Big Pimpin'/Papercut

 

Fun fact, this CD has a song called "Public Service Announcement", that's a Jay Z song, and i didnt know that so i was like "wtf, thats not the song that we know" lol

 

LPU 6

Announcement Service Public (that's ours)

Breaking The Habit Live

 

Man, QWERTY is such a good song, can't believe they dropped this thing off

 

LPU 7 (Live songs)

No More Sorrow Live (Note: That long live intro for this song sometimes have scratchs, not the case here but i'm considering it)

What i've Done Live

One Step Closer Live

Numb Live

Crawling Live

 

Sweet Hamster Like Jewels From America! LPU 8

LOL

 

LPU 9

This CD has some demos of songs that do have scratch, but since they're demos:

 

A.06 short has scratch but the longer version doesnt.

Sad (By Myself Demo) is a short sample so no

Figure.09 Demo kinda, if you consider everything from 2:00 to 2:16 as scratch

Stick And Move (Runaway Demo) also a short sample so no

Drawing (Breaking The Habit Demo) doesnt have scratching even that it has some effects that made in the final version (the explosion sound and the back and forth sound at the ending).

 

A Decade Underground 

Compilation of previous LPU songs so let's just ignore this one

 

LPU X

None

What ive Done Mike Shinoda Remix (the scratch was removed)

Oh No (Points Of Authority demo) it's just a drum demo

 

Divided and Halo are such good songs lol

 

LPU 11

Bang Three (What I've Done  Demo)

Esaul (A Place For My Head Demo)

 

Fun fact: The ending of "Blue" has the same melody as Crawling

 

LPU 12

Points Of Authority Demo

Bunker (Funfact, is the same sampler from Points of authority)

So Far Away ❤️

Forgotten Demo

 

Fun Fact: So Far Away has some elements from "Soundtrack"

Mom, can we trade Runaway for So Far away? Pleeeeease

Mom, can we trade In Between for Debris? Pleeeeeeaseee

 

LPU 13

None, even that we have a "Somewhere I Belong Demo"

 

MOOOOMMM CAN WE TRADE ILL BE GONE FOR PRIMO? PLEEEEEEEEEEASE

MOOOOOOOOOOOM CAN WE HAVE THREE BAND TERROR AT HOME?

Three Band Terror at home: (the boring ending of Until It Breaks lol)

 

LPU 14

None, even that, again, we have a "Original Mike Shinoda Breaking The Habit" demo from 2002 (lol mike's voice).

 

Fun fact: Some pieces from "Malathion+Tritonus" sounds similar to the extended ending they use in Points Of Authority Live

Fun Fact: The piano from "Berlin One Version C" is the same as "Jornada Del Muerto", so maybe this song is a demo from it.

 

LPU 15

None

Fun Fact: Hurry, again, has elements from "Soundtrack" and "So Far Away", this melody was definatelly explored by the band

 

And finally, LPU 16

The Catalyst Demo

 

Symphonies Of Light ❤️

 

omg, this thing is huge already, sorry

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by bruh009

[bruh009]

So, sorry for the double post but the last one is huge already.

 

I think from Xero throught Minutes To Midnight, Mr.Hahn was more of a "post production guy", kinda like, he takes the song that's almost finished and just sprinkle his magic on it... And he made this until Minutes To Midnight, that would explain why some many demos doesnt have scratch, even that the released track does (like Somewhere I Belong, Breaking The Habit and so on).

 

After this album i feel like he was dragged to the room and the band said "Hey Hahn, no more scratch, you're producing now, cmon, lets go"' and thats it

 

Also, we definatelly should have a "Fun fact" topic about some songs.