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Geki

Death To Analog vs. Out Of Ashes

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Both albums were essentially made around the same time, and all essentially by the same group of people, since Chester worked on a lot of the Death To Analog stuff with Julien-K and he was also the executive producer of the album.

So my question is.... which one do you prefer? I prefer both. I used to play DTA often when it came out but Ive been playing it more in recent years. I love the entire album. I even had Julien-K sign the album for me when I met them on tour. I also saw Julien-K on PR07 three times and it was epic, during the DTA era. Remember Chester doing Technical Difficulties? Or when he sang the whole set at the Chicago date of the tour? So good.

OOA of course I love too. I just wish it came out sooner than when it did.

Edited by Geki

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DTA is just a masterpiece to me. I love every track. I love the lyrics, the music, everything. It's weird because it's the only album I like by Julien-K and yet I love it.

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The best song of DTA is the b-side Killing Fields one of the best jams ever, I will never understand why it didnt make it to the final tracklist.

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The best song of DTA is the b-side Killing Fields one of the best jams ever, I will never understand why it didnt make it to the final tracklist.

 

It's a good song but I still like the original 14 song tracklisting. Like I said, there isn't a song I don't like from DTA. DBS should have come out in 2005 like it was supposed to, I hate how it came out in late 2009 and everything was changed within the songs and tracklisting.

Edited by Geki

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IMHO, Death To Analog COMPLETELY blows away Out Of Ashes. Every single song by Dead By Sunrise is cheesy as hell. They’re either trying to be these super mainstream butt-rock songs or these super cheesy The Cure style rip offs for love songs, etc. but done differently than JK. The lyrics I know were ‘’personal’’ to Chester but so weren’t the lyrics he wrote for LP, particular MTM which was written at the same time as DBS. All of the lyrics on DBS talk about either addiction, depression, or love. In Pieces was literally about the entire time period and completely blows away Let Down, etc. Given Up he wrote when he got back from rehab and it blows away all of the songs about addiction on OOA. SOTD deals with depression, same as like LOATR, VD, etc. Those are loads better. And they aren’t cheesy as all hell and are actually good songs. Which I guarantee he realized since he has said that when DBS started they hadn’t started writing MTM yet and he didn’t know what direction LP was going in. He said that after they did MTM, the DBS songs could have fit in that style, but he didn’t know it at the time, because he didn’t know LP was gonna be writing styles for every kind of song and experimenting hardcore for MTM. The only thing OOA has that MTM doesn’t is 3 love songs but IMO they are so are so cheesy and forgettable that it doesn’t matter. Some people may love them but I’m just saying me personally.

 

Now, as far as Death To Analog goes, Chester was super involved with that whole album and process. He literally taught Ryan how to sing during this time and even asked if he could join Julien-K at one point according to Ryan, because he loved it so much. You can tell that when Chester sang for Ryan on that one PR show that he was way into the songs. He looked like he was having more fun than at any DBS show and he rocked it. He also loved coming out at shows throughout 2006-2009 doing Technical Difficulties and sometimes Maestro, too. The style of the music was what he grew up loving. That Depeche Mode style 80’s synth stuff. He loved The Cure, Tears for Fears, Bowie, all that. He has said many times. And I think Chester really shaped DTA because a lot of JK’s stuff after DTA is way different (not that it’s bad though they are all better albums than OOA by a long shot). Ryan even says sometimes when he listens to old demos from 2004-2007 or whatever he can still hear Chester singing the songs because he literally wrote them with them and helped Ryan learn to sing the songs. So yeah. Chester definitely invested way more into DTA as well. He promoted the hell out of JK in 2006-2007 always wearing JK’s pins and stuff and mentioning them in interviews. He brought JK out on PR07 on the main stage which was huge since it was the first US tour for MTM and main stage was a big deal for a band like JK who was virtually unknown to the world as opposed to bands like MSI on the Rev Stage. He wanted to bring JK out for the Europe winter tour for MTM in 2008 but they couldn’t get the funding right or something. He was constantly appearing at JK shows well after MTM was done. He was at shows in late 2008, early 2009, etc. He executive produced DTA and promoted it when it dropped in early 2009. He didn’t really do shit for OOA. He didn’t even know what bonus tracks were coming out or anything about the release. He barely played any shows for OOA, not even a US tour. They didn’t even have a website. No making of DVD. The booklet that came with the album was garbage, no lyrics, just about 3 pages of pics of the band. I think he knew DBS sucked by the end of 2005 so he shelved it and did MTM. By the time PR08 was done everyone was up his ass about releasing it and if he didn’t everyone would forever bitch about it. So he changed a lot of the stuff and added new songs, changed songs, all that. When it dropped it didn’t do well and he knew it since he said so on his Twitter asking fans if he made a bad album. He knew it was bad. Lol. Cmon. That’s why he never picked it up again. Even in 2017, he said he wrote 5 songs on his own. Someone asked if they were DBS. He said nah I think they’re just my own thing. He knew DBS was shit. I know there was gonna be a ‘’reunion show in a warehouse in LA’’ in 2017 but they said shit like that in 2011, 2012, 2014, etc. He just said that stuff to make it seem like he was cool with it all, unlike how Mike dropped SOB from FM and they got pissed. Mike was in the right since SOB talked mad shit on him about Reseda Beach and then wanted to act like they were all cool with him when he got FM going again in 2015, like he owed them something, like they were just as much a part as him, etc. Mike was like fuck that low key and just did it himself. Pissed off SOB but who cares. Then Mike did PT all by himself and didn’t invite SOB to Chester’s tribute show cuz fuck em. They just wanted to use Mike’s fame all along. Chester was smart too to keep it low key about DBS and how he knew it sucked. He knew it sucked since late 2005, trust me. He just felt obligated to release it after PR08 because fans were up his ass about it 24/7 and so weren’t others. He even said the album was cheesy in an interview with suicidegirls in 2013.

 

Timing was everything with DBS. I think VERY early on, it could have been something decent, I’m talking the very first initial seeds or whatever he sang by himself on an acoustic in like late 2004/very early 2005 or whatever. However I think that as JK went further down the rabbit hole with their stuff, Chester really loved that stuff a lot. Like Ryan said, Chester even asked him if he could join the band but they said no because they already were making a record with him. And as 2005 went on the DBS songs changed a lot from the initial ideas and I think he tried to make them kind of like these JK style songs and made them cheesy, but not in a good way. They lost their soul. Then LP did MTM and I think he really loved making that album and the alt. rock style that it ultimately had, and the tour with all the rock and emo bands, all that. Like I said, when he first started writing songs for DBS, he said didn't yet know what LP was gonna do for their next album. And I think after PR08, he really tried to make the album appeal to mainstream butt-rock and stuff and picked Howard who helped it become that because he just wanted to satisfy people and be done with it. Read in the paragraph above with what I said about how little Chester cared about the release of the album. I think DBS was over before it started and went on life support shortly after the initial seed ideas he had were mixed with Ryan and Amir. He should have done it all himself just playing those songs he had on an acoustic. Like Let Down live from 2005 in Nashville. That’s all that DBS ever needed. It didn’t need to have 6 JK members like it ended up having and a butt-rock producer. It needed to come out in 2005 in the original acoustic style that it had. I wish it never came out and the last we ever heard about it was when Chester shelved it in late 2005. But I feel like even by the end of 2005 with Amir saying it was ‘done then if they wanted’ it already had become shit by then. So I’m saying the original seed ideas with Chester on an acoustic. Maybe as far as Let Down live from Nashville 2005 but not any farther than that. They could have went on tour in 2005 just the 3 of them like that, kept the songs acoustic like they were written, like that performance they did of Let Down, never involved the rest of JK or Howard, etc. Just did that in 2005 and it would have been good.

 

 

 

Like this is perfect. This is how it started it out as seeds. Or listen to Morning After from Berlin 2001. Let Down from 2005. The songs were never meant to have all that JK influence. They basically became second rate JK songs on OOA, or butt rock. 

 

I also hated how the Steve Wyrick show was promoted as acoustic but they needed to have Elias play drums loud as fuck. It was like half ass acoustic. Acoustic to me is what Let Down in Nashville 2005 was. Chester, Amir and Ryan. Vocals and guitar.

Edited by Garret

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I've noticed that almost anytime you personally don't like something, it seems that it's automatically bad. I can understand statements like the acoustic not being proper acoustic or that it didn't get a ton of promotion, but that entire post seems super opinionated ("butt-rock", "cheesy") and is full of assumptions ("He knew it sucked since late 2005, trust me", "He said nah I think they’re just my own thing. He knew DBS was shit.") that ultimately don't really even affect how the music itself sounds.

 

You brought up stuff about Styles of Beyond and Mike regarding Fort Minor and then mentioned Post Traumatic, but disregard that Mike released his Post Traumatic stuff under his own name, similar to how you say Chester wanted to do with his songs from 2017. Does that mean The Rising Tied or Welcome were shit?

 

I saw you mention in the shoutbox that Dead by Sunrise pages on Linkinpedia need more info and that you know it all well enough to write it yourself, but I honestly don't think you'd be able to write up an article without keeping it completely unbiased and introduce subtle jabs to the stuff you don't like. Maybe I'm going a bit overboard on this response, but the way that was all written feels really insulting to those involved and anyone who actually likes Dead by Sunrise, and I've seen things you've posted in the past to know that it probably wasn't written that way on accident

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2 hours ago, jFar920 said:

I've noticed that almost anytime you personally don't like something, it seems that it's automatically bad. I can understand statements like the acoustic not being proper acoustic or that it didn't get a ton of promotion, but that entire post seems super opinionated ("butt-rock", "cheesy") and is full of assumptions ("He knew it sucked since late 2005, trust me", "He said nah I think they’re just my own thing. He knew DBS was shit.") that ultimately don't really even affect how the music itself sounds.

 

You brought up stuff about Styles of Beyond and Mike regarding Fort Minor and then mentioned Post Traumatic, but disregard that Mike released his Post Traumatic stuff under his own name, similar to how you say Chester wanted to do with his songs from 2017. Does that mean The Rising Tied or Welcome were shit?

 

I saw you mention in the shoutbox that Dead by Sunrise pages on Linkinpedia need more info and that you know it all well enough to write it yourself, but I honestly don't think you'd be able to write up an article without keeping it completely unbiased and introduce subtle jabs to the stuff you don't like. Maybe I'm going a bit overboard on this response, but the way that was all written feels really insulting to those involved and anyone who actually likes Dead by Sunrise, and I've seen things you've posted in the past to know that it probably wasn't written that way on accident

 

That’s why I started my post with IMHO. It’s my opinion. Just because I think the songs are cheesy doesn’t mean that other people can’t feel differently. Butt-rock is a term for bands like Nickelback, Skillet, Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, etc. Which is what a lot of the ‘’harder’’ songs on the album sound like to me. And Howard Benson has worked with a lot of those types of bands. 

 

My entire was me voicing my opinion on the whole thing. If you want to read an article about the album, go look it up. It’s just my opinion. I personally think that the songs would have been better if they stayed acoustic like originally written with minimal input from the Julien-K guys. Sorry. And I was actually praising Mike for how he handled all his solo stuff. Read it again. 

 

Also, about writing for DBS on Linkinpedia, I said I no longer care about that because it’s fine the way it is. So yeah. 

Edited by Garret

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I probably overreacted a bit considering what I was attempting to call out, I'm sorry about that, it just feels crappy to assume Chester thought the album/band sucked based on very minimal interactions, especially when he can't really defend himself on it anymore. Maybe I'm in denial or biased because it was basically the first LP-related release I was around for (got really into the band right after Minutes to Midnight came out), but I really enjoy most Out of Ashes.

 

I see the term "butt-rock" thrown around a lot as an insult in other places outside of the Linkin Park community, and I don't really get how a term like that isn't meant to be insulting, but obviously you didn't come up with the term and it's understandable that it's kinda tied to certain bands now regardless of what it means. I honestly like a good chunk of Nickelback and Three Days Grace

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8 minutes ago, jFar920 said:

I probably overreacted a bit considering what I was attempting to call out, I'm sorry about that, it just feels crappy to assume Chester thought the album/band sucked based on very minimal interactions, especially when he can't really defend himself on it anymore. Maybe I'm in denial or biased because it was basically the first LP-related release I was around for (got really into the band right after Minutes to Midnight came out), but I really enjoy most Out of Ashes.

 

I see the term "butt-rock" thrown around a lot as an insult in other places outside of the Linkin Park community, and I don't really get how a term like that isn't meant to be insulting, but obviously you didn't come up with the term and it's understandable that it's kinda tied to certain bands now regardless of what it means. I honestly like a good chunk of Nickelback and Three Days Grace

 

I get it, trust me. I became a ‘’hardcore fan’’ in late 2004/early 2005, so I was around when the band was very first announced as Snow White Tan later that year. I watched Let Down on TV when they played it on September 10, 2005. Funnily enough I was browsing old LPA posts the other day and came across my post from 2005 after watching it. But that’s besides the point. So I really liked that time period and wish it came out then. I get what you mean since you became a hardcore fan in 2009 when Out Of Ashes came out. Look, it’s not THAT bad of an album. I’ve listened to it over and over for years. I just wish the songs kept their original soul and spirit that they had originally. You’ll find that a lot of people here agree that Let Down from 2005 blows away the finalized album but I’m probably the most douchebag about it because that’s just who I am and I hate myself for it. 

 

As for the butt-rock term I didn’t mean to offend anyone. That’s just what I’ve seen that kind of music called as time and time again. I used to like that stuff when I was younger but I don’t really listen to it anymore. It’s not bad per say it’s just not for me anymore. I guess I grew out of the sound DBS went for on the album and just wish we had the old acoustic versions that Chester originally made.

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