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NickDuffy

A Thought on ATS

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Almost every band changes sound at one point or another, does that make it automatically revolutionary? no it doesnt...

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Almost every band changes sound at one point or another, does that make it automatically revolutionary? no it doesnt...

I didn't even say anything about it being revolutionary, if this was directed at me. I simply said that ATS is less pop then any other LP record. And it really depends on what context your using revolutionary in, do you mean in the music industry or just for LP itself? If you mean music industry then no, ATS didn't really make a wave or anything like that, but it definetely was quite a jump for LP.

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unless your meaning pop as popular I can't take this post seriously

 

 

ATS was more pop than the rest of their albums

And this is where you've fallen into the trap. I'm going to take a wild guess - you aren't a musician are you?

 

Well I am a bit of one, I've played guitar for about six years now, so I know a thing or two about musical theory and writing music. Let me explain something to you:

 

Hybrid Theory was a POP album.

 

And no, I do not mean "pop" as in "popular." I mean it was pop music.

 

What are some of the characteristics of a Katy Perry song? A beat you can nod your head to, simple relatable lyrics, catchy choruses, and a formulaic song structure and chord progression. It has to be short enough and catchy enough to attract the ADD attention of the masses when its played on pop radio, so that it can sell a bunch of copies and make a lot of money.

 

Let's think about Hybrid Theory and Meteora, shall we?

 

Fun music you can nod your head to (headbang to)? Check.

Simple lyrics that anyone can find a way to relate to in one way or another? Check.

Catchy choruses? SUPER check.

Formulaic song structure? Triple check, every song is about 3 minutes long and every heavy bridge comes in at the 2 minute mark. Like clockwork.

Easy chord progressions? Check.

 

"But OMG! Hybrid Theory is so hardcore because of teh screamz and teh rapz and teh guitar so kewl!"

 

Can I tell you a secret? All the screaming and the rapping and the cool distorted guitar is nothing but a red herring. Hybrid Theory is pop music for the teenager who is "too cool" for Britney Spears.

 

There's a reason Serj Tankian described System of a Down's music as pop. Perhaps you need to broaden your musical horizons a bit more.

 

Damn. I forgot, I live in the generation where layered plug-ins is considered great music. Name five of the greatest albums of all time that were made strictly on a computer. For those who always defended Linkin Park claiming they aren't a "pro tools savvy band" they sure love the album that was made mainly with samplers and synthesizers. No wonder "The Catalyst" sounds awful live as opposed to "The Little Things Give You Away" or "Faint".

 

"Shut up when i'm talking to you" is an absolute awful lyric, but when you release an album ten years later with the lyric "try to catch up mothafuckaaa!", it becomes a signature-worthy statement. That's the Linkin Park smart-fan logic right? Hey Bliss and I should be bashed forever since we enjoy Meteora and Minutes To Midnight. At least when I see songs from those albums played live, I don't see the whole band using samplers while the lead singer is dancing back and forth bashing on electronic drums screaming his heart out "fuck it are you listening!?".

Let me be clear: no one should be bashing you for simply enjoying Meteora/MTM more than ATS. You're allowed to like whatever you want. That's what subjectivity is.

 

However, let me also make something clear: There is objectivity, meaning fact, in art too. You're allowed to like whatever you want, but there are things about art that are not up for interpretation.

 

For instance, A Thousand Suns is the least pop Linkin Park album. That is an objective fact. There are a ton of reasons for this, whether or not you choose to accept these facts is up to you.

 

I cannot speak for anyone else, but as for myself, I do not defend ATS as Linkin Park's best work because its full of synthesizers and pro tools plug ins. All of that stuff only effects how the music sounds, and as I said in response to Bliss, all that is is a red herring. It's not about how it sounds, its about how the music is constructed.

 

And THAT is where A Thousand Suns is far beyond Linkin Park's previous work. It is simply more creative. The songs on this album dare to go beyond the song-writing techniques of a pop star.

 

No one should be saying that A Thousand Suns was a revolutionary album. If someone actually believes that, their standards are much too low. But, it is a very important album for the band, because it shows that they are willing to write music as an art, rather than as a way of having radio hits.

Edited by Xero21

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Damn. I forgot, I live in the generation where layered plug-ins is considered great music. Name five of the greatest albums of all time that were made strictly on a computer. For those who always defended Linkin Park claiming they aren't a "pro tools savvy band" they sure love the album that was made mainly with samplers and synthesizers. No wonder "The Catalyst" sounds awful live as opposed to "The Little Things Give You Away" or "Faint".

 

"Shut up when i'm talking to you" is an absolute awful lyric, but when you release an album ten years later with the lyric "try to catch up mothafuckaaa!", it becomes a signature-worthy statement. That's the Linkin Park smart-fan logic right? Hey Bliss and I should be bashed forever since we enjoy Meteora and Minutes To Midnight. At least when I see songs from those albums played live, I don't see the whole band using samplers while the lead singer is dancing back and forth bashing on electronic drums screaming his heart out "fuck it are you listening!?".

 

This is 2012. This is the generation where Radiohead is the legendary band of the past, The Black Keys are the future, and if a song has a radio-safe structure, it's considered bland and unintresting. Break out the mouses and keyboards, it's time to start a revolution! Who wants to go to a real concert? That's right we got Skrillex here for you!/sarcasm

 

(oh yeah this post also makes me a troll because I have a different opinion than the majority even though I praise other albums that they make especially one that is far from nu-metal, in Minutes To Midnight).

Who said you're trolling? And if they did, they're stupid. Because you're not trolling. Your opinion is just supported by weak statements, particularly in your opening post.

 

Name five of the greatest albums of all time made strictly on a computer? First of all the idea of using nothing but a computer to make an album is a recent concept and it takes several years of an album existing for it to be called one of the greatest of all time. In addition, you seem to be ignoring electronic instruments, which are hugely important in a number of forms of music and require just as much work as what you apparently deem "real instruments."

 

Who even brought Pro Tools into this discussion? Do you even know how many bands today use Pro Tools? I don't even know what point you're attempting to make here. Additionally, samplers and synthesizers can be used when recording with tape. Don't even try that shit. Those have been used for decades, and samples have existed since the early 1900s. Don't even.

 

The presentation of Linkin Park's shows have changed, and yes, the songs from ATS are more difficult to reproduce live because of how the songs are structured and the layering of them. And yeah, the Catalyst does lose a bit of its appeal in a live setting. But I'll still flip my shit over it if I'm at a concert, because that's what you're there for. It was the lead single from the album, are you saying it shouldn't be played live because it, to you, sounds like crap? What does that say about the band's faith in the album? If you can't even play cuts off of it live, then your album is shit or you're too old to play live shows at all.

 

Again, you seem to be against the use of electronic instruments and methods of music-making. And the statement about lyrics from OSC compared to WTCFM doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm not reading it right. If you could clarify it a bit, I'd appreciate that.

 

I should mention that the band, in my opinion, doesn't have the same sort of energy when playing the classic songs as when they're playing the new shit, unless they're bringing back a song they haven't played in years. It feels like it's more out of obligation that they're playing the old songs, because otherwise, fans of the old music wouldn't even bother going to the shows.

 

Are The Black Keys the future? Not a fan of them, honestly. And your statement about radio-safe structure only applies to stupid hipsters who can't appreciate anything that's sold over 1,000 copies. Give the Foo Fighters' "Wasting Light" a spin. Album of the fucking year (to me because, well, Adele exists and wins all the Grammys ever) and they're the definition of radio rock and one of my favorite bands.

 

And I don't know a single person on this forum who would choose fucking Skrillex over seeing a band in concert.

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Who said you're trolling? And if they did, they're stupid. Because you're not trolling. Your opinion is just supported by weak statements, particularly in your opening post.

 

Name five of the greatest albums of all time made strictly on a computer? First of all the idea of using nothing but a computer to make an album is a recent concept and it takes several years of an album existing for it to be called one of the greatest of all time. In addition, you seem to be ignoring electronic instruments, which are hugely important in a number of forms of music and require just as much work as what you apparently deem "real instruments."

 

Who even brought Pro Tools into this discussion? Do you even know how many bands today use Pro Tools? I don't even know what point you're attempting to make here. Additionally, samplers and synthesizers can be used when recording with tape. Don't even try that shit. Those have been used for decades, and samples have existed since the early 1900s. Don't even.

 

The presentation of Linkin Park's shows have changed, and yes, the songs from ATS are more difficult to reproduce live because of how the songs are structured and the layering of them. And yeah, the Catalyst does lose a bit of its appeal in a live setting. But I'll still flip my shit over it if I'm at a concert, because that's what you're there for. It was the lead single from the album, are you saying it shouldn't be played live because it, to you, sounds like crap? What does that say about the band's faith in the album? If you can't even play cuts off of it live, then your album is shit or you're too old to play live shows at all.

 

Again, you seem to be against the use of electronic instruments and methods of music-making. And the statement about lyrics from OSC compared to WTCFM doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm not reading it right. If you could clarify it a bit, I'd appreciate that.

 

I should mention that the band, in my opinion, doesn't have the same sort of energy when playing the classic songs as when they're playing the new shit, unless they're bringing back a song they haven't played in years. It feels like it's more out of obligation that they're playing the old songs, because otherwise, fans of the old music wouldn't even bother going to the shows.

 

Are The Black Keys the future? Not a fan of them, honestly. And your statement about radio-safe structure only applies to stupid hipsters who can't appreciate anything that's sold over 1,000 copies. Give the Foo Fighters' "Wasting Light" a spin. Album of the fucking year (to me because, well, Adele exists and wins all the Grammys ever) and they're the definition of radio rock and one of my favorite bands.

 

And I don't know a single person on this forum who would choose fucking Skrillex over seeing a band in concert.

The Radiohead, Black Keys, and Skrillex comment was all sarcasm.

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And this is where you've fallen into the trap. I'm going to take a wild guess - you aren't a musician are you?

 

Well I am a bit of one, I've played guitar for about six years now, so I know a thing or two about musical theory and writing music. Let me explain something to you:

 

Hybrid Theory was a POP album.

 

And no, I do not mean "pop" as in "popular." I mean it was pop music.

 

What are some of the characteristics of a Katy Perry song? A beat you can nod your head to, simple relatable lyrics, catchy choruses, and a formulaic song structure and chord progression. It has to be short enough and catchy enough to attract the ADD attention of the masses when its played on pop radio, so that it can sell a bunch of copies and make a lot of money.

 

Let's think about Hybrid Theory and Meteora, shall we?

 

Fun music you can nod your head to (headbang to)? Check.

Simple lyrics that anyone can find a way to relate to in one way or another? Check.

Catchy choruses? SUPER check.

Formulaic song structure? Triple check, every song is about 3 minutes long and every heavy bridge comes in at the 2 minute mark. Like clockwork.

Easy chord progressions? Check.

 

"But OMG! Hybrid Theory is so hardcore because of teh screamz and teh rapz and teh guitar so kewl!"

 

Can I tell you a secret? All the screaming and the rapping and the cool distorted guitar is nothing but a red herring. Hybrid Theory is pop music for the teenager who is "too cool" for Britney Spears.

 

There's a reason Serj Tankian described System of a Down's music as pop. Perhaps you need to broaden your musical horizons a bit more.

I knew someone wwould say something like this, I need to explain myself more. I don't mean pop as all the stuff you said, because what you said is true, I don't mean pop in the simple song structure, and I don/t mean pop as in popular. I mean pop in how the music sounds, In the end (no pun intended), it just matters weather you like the music or not. Yes, HT is pop in the sense you descirbed, but does the actually sound of the songs sound like a Katy Perry song or some other pop music, not really. It's pop music in certain senses but not pop music in other senses.

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You're twisting the definition to fit the "pop" standards, as in catchy tunes and all that shit.

 

Hybrid Theory is as fucking pop as it gets, defined in its own genre of music. I mean, have you seen the change in lyrics from the earlier versions to the final ones?

 

Esaúl

 

"From planetary signs, rising over the horizon, smaller than a flystand"

"A thoroughbred, thoroughly bled, and led to the land where they never come back"

"And the killing of the killer with a flick of the wrist"

 

Exemplar verses.

 

 

A Place for My Head

 

"It makes me think of how you act to me, you do favours then rapidly you just turn around and start asking me..."

 

or...

 

The Untitled

 

"It multiplies 'til you can taste the Sun, and burnt by the sky you try to take it from"

"With the twilight through the skylight and the highlight's on a frame of steel"

 

 

In The End

 

"Trying to hold on but didn't even know, I wasted it all just to watch you go..."

 

Final versions are as pop as it gets.

 

 

The contrast between lyric themes can be seen miles away. ATS is evolution in musical and lyrical terms, and there's no denying of that.

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I knew someone wwould say something like this, I need to explain myself more. I don't mean pop as all the stuff you said, because what you said is true, I don't mean pop in the simple song structure, and I don/t mean pop as in popular. I mean pop in how the music sounds, In the end (no pun intended), it just matters weather you like the music or not. Yes, HT is pop in the sense you descirbed, but does the actually sound of the songs sound like a Katy Perry song or some other pop music, not really. It's pop music in certain senses but not pop music in other senses.

Okay thanks for explaining what you meant. But to be honest, defining something by "pop sound" is really too vague, because what "pop sound" is can and does change with time. The structure and composition, however, stays the same. That's why I refer to the sound of the music as a red herring, because it can really be anything.

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Esaúl

 

"From planetary signs, rising over the horizon, smaller than a flystand"

"A thoroughbred, thoroughly bled, and led to the land where they never come back"

"And the killing of the killer with a flick of the wrist"

 

The Untitled

 

"It multiplies 'til you can taste the Sun, and burnt by the sky you try to take it from"

"With the twilight through the skylight and the highlight's on a frame of steel"

I wish Mike still wrote lyrics like this.

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I wish Mike still wrote lyrics like this.

Xero's verses, Part Of Me's verses, High Voltage's verses (though it was a B-Side) And One's end verse. Hell, even fucking Crawling's "Raindrops" bridge.

 

"Take you to the depths of the bottom of the well" HOT DAMN

 

 

Warner fucking made them, despite Mike (and/or the band) denying so. ATS is the band saying fuck you to all that, doing whatever they want to do, not what they're expected to.

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