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Linkin Park's best album

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ATS = A++

M2M = A

MT = D

Reanimation A+

HT = A -

 

I just really dislike meteora.

Edited by Annoy

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Sorry, but I just disagree.

 

You said that "Yes, more challenging and creative lyrics are a great thing in music, but the simplicity and easy-listening of Hybrid Theory proves how great the album is. A 12 year old could listen to this album, same with a 17, 22, 27, and 32, 42, 62 year old and understand what the lyrics mean."

 

Besides the fact that you completely contradict yourself, your logic doesn't make any sense. By your logic, Curious George is one of the greatest books ever written, because people of all ages can pick it up and understand the messages. By your logic, the Yogi Bear movie is a better movie than Inception, because it's easier to understand what's going on. Clearly, neither of those is true. Intelligent music is good music. So simple a pre-teen can get it, is NOT intelligent.

 

Every song on Hybrid Theory sounds the same. It's the same formula over and over and over again. Give me heavy distorted guitars with rap verses, a screaming chorus, a heavy bridge at the 2 minute mark (seriously, go back and check. Hybrid Theory is such a formulaic album, that the heavy bridges cut in at almost the exact same time in every song) and cash the checks. Nothing creative about that. You want to talk about "following a blueprint"? For God's sake, every song on this album follows the same exact formula.

 

People credit HT for helping create the nu-metal genre. Sorry, but LOLno. Hybrid Theory came out at the peak of of nu-metal, it didn't help create it. If anything, it was following a trend. (To be fair though, the band was writing these nu-metal songs years before HT actually came out, as we know from the demo tapes)

 

You said every song on HT could have been a single. That's probably true, and quite frankly, I see that as a bad thing. The fact that every song on that album was so rock radio-oriented and pop-structured shows a complete lack of musical creativity.

 

Hybrid Theory is also, in essence, a pop album. A lot of you probably think I'm crazy now, but I'm not. The whole hardcore, head-banging, guitar/screaming stuff is really more of a red-herring in that regard. Think of it this way: "This is an album full of songs that sound like each other, follow very typical verse/chorus structure, emphasis on a catchy/memorable chorus, simple lyrics, that could achieve mainstream radio success."

 

If you were to just read the above sentence about an album, without knowing anything else about it, you would absolutely have to think it was a pop album. Well, those statements are all true of Hybrid Theory.

 

We all need to face it, Hybrid Theory was an album for angsty teenagers. I know that's been said time and time again, but that's because it's true. Simple, easily digestible music that is a ton of fun to jump around to in your bedroom, but doesn't have a ton of substance to it, musically or lyrically.

 

Granted, the way the music is presented was definitely Linkin Park's own. It was nu-metal, which had been done before, but LP found their own way of doing it and making it unique within that genre. So they should receive credit for that.

 

I'll always appreciate Hybrid Theory for being the first album from my favorite band, for being the little-album-that-could that went on to sell millions after no one wanted to give it a chance, but other than the sentimental values it holds, it really is not anything very special. Even the band realizes this. Every album is like a snapshot of where the band is in their lives. During Hybrid Theory, they were angsty young kids. Now, they're older and have much more diverse, creative, and interesting taste in music, and it reflects in the music they make.

 

I'd much rather have the album that tries to break free of traditional mainstream-crafted music, instead of the album that is full of it.

 

A Thousand Suns > Hybrid Theory

Edited by Xero21

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Minutes to Midnight should have had QWERTY and Blackbirds, don't know where the bands head were leaving thoose two out.

QWERTY would have been horribly out of place on MTM. And Blackbirds isn't good enough...

 

Across the Line and No Roads Left, they should have included.

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Intelligent music is good music.

The fact that every song on that album was so rock radio-oriented and pop-structured shows a complete lack of musical creativity.

If you were to just read the above sentence about an album, without knowing anything else about it, you would absolutely have to think it was a pop album. Well, those statements are all true of Hybrid Theory.

Hum...maybe for you, good music = intelligent, complex. But to me, good music = enjoyable. Simply enjoyable. An album can be pretty complex, but not pleasant to listen to.And a pop record can be pretty epic, even if the music is super simple. HT is more enjoyable to me than ATS (better melody, more energy), so I think it's better than ATS, even if it lacks complexity.

 

 

Every song on Hybrid Theory sounds the same. It's the same formula over and over and over again. Give me heavy distorted guitars with rap verses, a screaming chorus, a heavy bridge at the 2 minute mark. For God's sake, every song on this album follows the same exact formula.

There's a little bit of truth in what you're saying, but you're exaggerating. How the hell Papercut, One Step Closer, Crawling, Forgotten, and Cure For the Itch have the same structure and sound the same?!

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Forgotten and OSC are structured just like the rest of the album with just very slight differences.

 

Forgotten has that intro/prechorus thing but is still rap verses, melodic chorus, heavy bridge.

 

One Step Closer is just like every other song on the album just with singing instead of rapping in the verses.

 

Hybrid Theory is very formulaic. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but don't deny the truth.

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There's a little bit of truth in what you're saying, but you're exaggerating. How the hell Papercut, One Step Closer, Crawling, Forgotten, and Cure For the Itch have the same structure and sound the same?!

Cure for the Itch is different, it's a completely instrumental.

 

As for Papercut, One Step Closer, Crawling, and Forgotten, listen to the music.

 

Structure: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus end. I guess Crawling doesn't really have a bridge, but I hope you get the point. The structure is the same.

 

Listen to the music. During the verses, the music is quiet. Maybe there is less guitar, or no guitar at all.

 

Then the chorus comes in, BAM loud guitars come back in.

 

It's like I'm paranoid lookin over my back! EVERYTHING YOU SAY TO MEEEEEE! CRAAAAAAWLING INNNNN MY SKINNNNN! From the top to the bottom! It's trueeeeee the way I feeeeeeeel! I wanna be in another placeeeee.

 

Then the next verse, quiet again. THEN ANOTHER BIG CHORUS WITH THOSE LOUD GUITARS!

 

Then at the 2 minute mark, THE HEAVY BRIDGE!

 

I'm sorry if this is some sort of revelation to some people, but it is what it is.

Edited by Xero21

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It's like I'm paranoid lookin over my back! EVERYTHING YOU SAY TO MEEEEEE! CRAAAAAAWLING INNNNN MY SKINNNNN! From the top to the bottom! It's trueeeeee the way I feeeeeeeel! I wanna be in another placeeeee.

I don't know why, but this made me laugh... :P

 

As for the rest, I know HT is formulaic, but not as much as you pretend it is.

 

Papercut has not really a final chorus, or at least it's different (with the "the suuuuuun....."thing). And there are no agressive/rough vocals during the chorus.

 

Crawling has no brigde.

 

Forgotten has a pre-bridge intro-thing

 

OSC has loud guitars during all the song, not only chorus...

 

And finally, some bridges are rapping, while other are screaming, while other are both, while other are singing...Some verses are rapping while other are singing....There's a similar structure throughout the album, but come on, it's not exactly the same!

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I don't know why, but this made me laugh... :P

 

As for the rest, I know HT is formulaic, but not as much as you pretend it is.

 

Papercut has not really a final chorus, or at least it's different (with the "the suuuuuun....."thing). And there are no agressive/rough vocals during the chorus.

 

Crawling has no brigde.

 

Forgotten has a pre-bridge intro-thing

 

OSC has loud guitars during all the song, not only chorus...

 

And finally, some bridges are rapping, while other are screaming, while other are both, while other are singing...Some verses are rapping while other are singing....There's a similar structure throughout the album, but come on, it's not exactly the same!

Well of course it's not *exactly* the same, but it's so similar it just gets repetitive.

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fuck the other post

 

i made my mind

 

 

A Thousand Suns ≥ Minutes to Midnight = Meteora ≥ Hybrid Theory

Edited by Robot Boy

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Sorry, but I just disagree.

 

You said that "Yes, more challenging and creative lyrics are a great thing in music, but the simplicity and easy-listening of Hybrid Theory proves how great the album is. A 12 year old could listen to this album, same with a 17, 22, 27, and 32, 42, 62 year old and understand what the lyrics mean."

 

Besides the fact that you completely contradict yourself, your logic doesn't make any sense. By your logic, Curious George is one of the greatest books ever written, because people of all ages can pick it up and understand the messages. By your logic, the Yogi Bear movie is a better movie than Inception, because it's easier to understand what's going on. Clearly, neither of those is true. Intelligent music is good music. So simple a pre-teen can get it, is NOT intelligent.

 

Every song on Hybrid Theory sounds the same. It's the same formula over and over and over again. Give me heavy distorted guitars with rap verses, a screaming chorus, a heavy bridge at the 2 minute mark (seriously, go back and check. Hybrid Theory is such a formulaic album, that the heavy bridges cut in at almost the exact same time in every song) and cash the checks. Nothing creative about that. You want to talk about "following a blueprint"? For God's sake, every song on this album follows the same exact formula.

 

People credit HT for helping create the nu-metal genre. Sorry, but LOLno. Hybrid Theory came out at the peak of of nu-metal, it didn't help create it. If anything, it was following a trend. (To be fair though, the band was writing these nu-metal songs years before HT actually came out, as we know from the demo tapes)

 

You said every song on HT could have been a single. That's probably true, and quite frankly, I see that as a bad thing. The fact that every song on that album was so rock radio-oriented and pop-structured shows a complete lack of musical creativity.

 

Hybrid Theory is also, in essence, a pop album. A lot of you probably think I'm crazy now, but I'm not. The whole hardcore, head-banging, guitar/screaming stuff is really more of a red-herring in that regard. Think of it this way: "This is an album full of songs that sound like each other, follow very typical verse/chorus structure, emphasis on a catchy/memorable chorus, simple lyrics, that could achieve mainstream radio success."

 

If you were to just read the above sentence about an album, without knowing anything else about it, you would absolutely have to think it was a pop album. Well, those statements are all true of Hybrid Theory.

 

We all need to face it, Hybrid Theory was an album for angsty teenagers. I know that's been said time and time again, but that's because it's true. Simple, easily digestible music that is a ton of fun to jump around to in your bedroom, but doesn't have a ton of substance to it, musically or lyrically.

 

Granted, the way the music is presented was definitely Linkin Park's own. It was nu-metal, which had been done before, but LP found their own way of doing it and making it unique within that genre. So they should receive credit for that.

 

I'll always appreciate Hybrid Theory for being the first album from my favorite band, for being the little-album-that-could that went on to sell millions after no one wanted to give it a chance, but other than the sentimental values it holds, it really is not anything very special. Even the band realizes this. Every album is like a snapshot of where the band is in their lives. During Hybrid Theory, they were angsty young kids. Now, they're older and have much more diverse, creative, and interesting taste in music, and it reflects in the music they make.

 

I'd much rather have the album that tries to break free of traditional mainstream-crafted music, instead of the album that is full of it.

 

A Thousand Suns > Hybrid Theory

in my opinion not all good music has to be intelligent. In fact in most people think different. I think good music is fun to listen to. and most people think that cause look who sells stuff these days (Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Justin Bieber, ect.) I think good music= fun music. And the fact that anyone can understand the messages of Hybrid Theory is a good thing because, the lyrics speak of trials and problems they went through that other people could be going through, so the songs could HELP them. (i do agree that ATS> HT, but your points i read i don't think work)

 

QWERTY would have been horribly out of place on MTM. And Blackbirds isn't good enough...

 

Across the Line and No Roads Left, they should have included.

QWERTY would have been great on MTM. I you include QWERTY and blackbirds the album would have had a couple more songs like thier old style. A mix of old and new would have been a better MTM. ATL they should have included. No Roads Left they shouldn't have.

 

Hum...maybe for you, good music = intelligent, complex. But to me, good music = enjoyable. Simply enjoyable. An album can be pretty complex, but not pleasant to listen to.And a pop record can be pretty epic, even if the music is super simple. HT is more enjoyable to me than ATS (better melody, more energy), so I think it's better than ATS, even if it lacks complexity.

I agree, as i said when replying to his post

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in my opinion not all good music has to be intelligent. In fact in most people think different. I think good music is fun to listen to. and most people think that cause look who sells stuff these days (Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Justin Bieber, ect.) I think good music= fun music. And the fact that anyone can understand the messages of Hybrid Theory is a good thing because, the lyrics speak of trials and problems they went through that other people could be going through, so the songs could HELP them. (i do agree that ATS> HT, but your points i read i don't think work)

We're thinking of two different kinds of good.

 

For me, there's two kinds of good music (or good anything). Personally good, and objectively good.

 

Personally good = guilty pleasure stuff/stuff that's fun to listen to. This is the mainstream stuff that sells, like the artists you mentioned.

 

Objectively good = Setting that personal "funness" aside to be objective. How creative is it? How intelligent is it? Is this music something I could easily find somewhere else?

 

I think Hybrid Theory is "personally" good. I have fun listening to it. But if I'm being objective in thinking about the music, that's where all the other points I made in that huge post come in. Objectively, HT is not that great at all.

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Well of course it's not *exactly* the same, but it's so similar it just gets repetitive.

HT is maybe the album I have listened the most in my life, and for me, it never gets old/repetitive. I guess this is just a matter of personnal tastes....

 

But anyway, if we talk about the musical value of a record, I know ATS is more complex than HT. It's obvious. At least instrumentally-spoken. However, as it goes about the vocals, I'm not even sure. I don't think Chester would still be able to sing the Crawling/With You/...chorus like he did in the past.

Edited by Qwerty18

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HT is maybe the album I have listened the most in my life, and for me, it never gets old/repetitive. I guess this is just a matter of personnal tastes....

 

But anyway, if we talk about the musical value of a record, I know ATS is more complex than HT. It's obvious. At least instrumentally-spoken. However, as it goes about the vocals, I'm not even sure. I don't think Chester would still be able to sing the Crawling/With You/...chorus like he did in the past.

i agree, i think the vocals of HT are more complex. Becuase, it takes lots of talent to scream good.

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I think Chester did some things on ATS that were more complex than things he did on previous records. The Messenger and The Catalyst are good examples of this.

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i agree, i think the vocals of HT are more complex. Becuase, it takes lots of talent to scream good.

It really doesn't. Singing is far more difficult than screaming.

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Meteora is their best album in my opinion. As a harder rock fan I guess. ATS is good for what it is while i enjoyed it for a little I haven't listened to it in a while. I'm looking forward to seeing where the band goes though since they have so much room to work with.

 

Mine:

Meteora>Hybrid Theory>Minutes to Midnight>Reanimation>A Thousand Suns

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Xero, you made some pretty good points, but I just think Hybrid Theory is more honest, and more enjoyable. Throwing in 3 half-assed interludes, and 2 good interludes isn't being creative. "The Radiance" is only used because of Oppenheimer. The speech within the song doesn't really connect with the story/theme, but more of the title and track titles. "Empty Spaces" is basically the most useless interlude i've ever listened to. It serves no purpose at all. "Fallout" is half assed. Basically an acapella of Mike Shinoda singing the chorus from "Burning In The Skies" through effects/vocoder. The other interludes (JDM and WJL) are actually well done. So the majority of this album is useless scrap tracks that look good ON PAPER, but have you fooled when listening to the record. You see, when I noticed there was a 57 second track on the album, and a 18 second track I thought "whoa, now i'm sure we are in for something fun. something exciting". Instead I was bored to death by two boring tracks. They didn't help transition into tracks or change any moods for me. It seriously looks like they tried harder to make this album look creative and different, rather then making the music do that on it's on.

 

Don't get me wrong, a few of the songs have some crazy structures, especially for Linkin Park's standards, but the whole point of me bringing this up is to say that Hybrid Theory was a creative album, and it felt like the band's goal was to make music the way they want to. Not by forcing garbage tracks into the record or by singing/rapping in reggae accents, and having famous political people turn into robots.

 

Hybrid Theory was creative, and honest.

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Becuase, it takes lots of talent to scream good.

I lol'd. If it takes a lot of talent to scream well, I guess it takes a lot of talent to shit well. :|

 

And Chester hits higher notes in ATS than he did on both HT and Meteora. Most of his vocals on HT were layered together to make him sound more powerful.

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I lol'd. If it takes a lot of talent to scream well, I guess it takes a lot of talent to shit well. :|

 

And Chester hits higher notes in ATS than he did on both HT and Meteora. Most of his vocals on HT were layered together to make him sound more powerful.

I agree on the fact screaming well is more easy to do than singing well. BUT singing with this powerful/rough/half-screamed voice Chester use in HT is way more complicated than singing "softly". Even if he hits higher notes with the soft voice.

 

I don't need to proove that. While Chester can nail the ATS songs live, just listen to how faint sounds live now. Or crawling. Or OSC. Or LFY. Chester can't do it anymore, the chorus have lost all of their agressivity. Because HT vocals need tons of skills, you can't deny it!

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I agree on the fact screaming well is more easy to do than singing well. BUT singing with this powerful/rough/half-screamed voice Chester use in HT is way more complicated than singing "softly". Even if he hits higher notes with the soft voice.

 

I don't need to proove that. While Chester can nail the ATS songs live, just listen to how faint sounds live now. Or crawling. Or OSC. Or LFY. Chester can't do it anymore, the chorus have lost all of their agressivity. Because HT vocals need tons of skills, you can't deny it!

that's what i was trying to get at.

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I agree on the fact screaming well is more easy to do than singing well. BUT singing with this powerful/rough/half-screamed voice Chester use in HT is way more complicated than singing "softly". Even if he hits higher notes with the soft voice.

 

I don't need to proove that. While Chester can nail the ATS songs live, just listen to how faint sounds live now. Or crawling. Or OSC. Or LFY. Chester can't do it anymore, the chorus have lost all of their agressivity. Because HT vocals need tons of skills, you can't deny it!

I'd agree with you on this, although actually I think the chorus of "wrectches & Kings" is an exception. it is the closest chester has got with his old school way of singing. I mean, it isn't like "with you" or anything, but theres certainly an angsty presence in his voice on this track. which is why its probably one of my favourites.

 

But otherwise yes, especially on the live front, chaz overall can't sing the way he used to. But hes' getting on and isn't as youg as he used to be.

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For me, Minutes to Midnight is by far their best album yet . Hybrid Theory is great, everytime i'm listenning to it , i still can see the "happy" mood and the "freshness" they were in when they recorded the album. Meteora is also pretty good, but the thing i don't like on this record, is that all the songs are kinda the same (Intro by Mr hahn, Rap Verse,Screamo Chorus, etc) and at the end , it's kinda boring to listen . What i like on MTM, is that each songs are really different, you see that they've grown up, and they don't wanna do the same style all the time , and i'm never getting bored when i'm listenning to it . On this record, they've made the proof that they were true musicians by re-creating themselves and not doing the same thing over and over. A thing they prove again on A Thousand Suns . The only thing i don't like on this record are the useless interludes and the absence of guitars in most of the songs . but i truly hope they will fix that mistake on their next record.

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