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Hybrid Theory in Atmos Spatial


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I don't really get this. Music is usually created from the beginning to end with stereo in mind (excluding movie scores). Every other form/mix is just an afterthought, created with whatever was available. I wouldn't be surprised if no one in the band ever heard the surround version, let alone approving it. For me this sounds more like a fun gimmick feature to sell a service.

Edited by Coizu
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1 hour ago, Coizu said:

I don't really get this. Music is usually created from the beginning to end with stereo in mind (excluding movie scores). Every other form/mix is just an afterthought, created with whatever was available. I wouldn't be surprised if no one in the band ever heard the surround version, let alone approving it. For me this sounds more like a fun gimmick feature to sell a service.

 

I can't neither agree or disagree until I listen to this mix with the proper equipment.

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3 hours ago, Coizu said:

I don't really get this. Music is usually created from the beginning to end with stereo in mind (excluding movie scores). Every other form/mix is just an afterthought, created with whatever was available. I wouldn't be surprised if no one in the band ever heard the surround version, let alone approving it. For me this sounds more like a fun gimmick feature to sell a service.

I would second that. You can do interesting stuff with the masters and I wish I had the possibility to listen to the album in In Atmos, but at the end of the day the Album was recorded for the normal consumer wich is Stereo. Keep in mind Hybrid Theory was recorded in 2000, I think that is quite a bit earlier than consumer 5.1 equipment came on the market, I´m having trouble finding out when exactly "affordable" home systems became available. Also the Reanimation 5.1 seemed to be little more than a fun gimmick since it never cought on with the later albums. ATS or LT would sure been interesting but it seems like it wasn´t woth the trouble. 

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  • LPLStaff changed the title to Hybrid Theory in Atmos Spatial
On 6/25/2021 at 4:29 PM, JZ-GreyDazeWorshipper said:

3 options

wait which one am I missing rn?

 

On 6/25/2021 at 5:23 AM, RogueSoul said:

some of the mixes are lacking, especially in the bass department

as martinez mentioned before, it would be insane to expect a proper mix listening on a stereo device. I know that there are Surround settings for some devices, but in fact they can't simulate that very well. IIRC you have a subwoofer in a Surround system, which would give you the expected bass stuff (I believe there is a single track/channel for that, which you can barely hear on headphones, cause it gets pushed away by channels with "higher" (more headphone-ish) frequencies).

 

On 6/26/2021 at 9:04 PM, Coizu said:

Every other form/mix is just an afterthought, created with whatever was available.

depends on how they did it. e.g. Brad had always envisioned a huge wall of sound, which is why there are sometimes layers of four guitars, which you could now get on four individual tracks, which you can't on stereo. but I agree on that concerning stuff like sweeping from left to right or adding reverb and stuff. that's just not their business, that goes even further than a remaster would go.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 1:06 AM, Robrobbsen said:

Reanimation 5.1 seemed to be little more than a fun gimmick since it never caught on with the later albums

yeah but Reanimation was all about the ambience and aura in the first place too, and 5.1 really pays off if I think, I wish I had a surround system

 

On 6/27/2021 at 1:06 AM, Robrobbsen said:

ATS or LT would sure been interesting but it seems like it wasn´t worth the trouble

I fucking need this. But ONLY if Mike and Brad supervise it. Especially  ATS

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8 hours ago, martinez said:

Fundamental question: is it possible that they have a stems of all 80 tracks from Hybrid Theory (20th Anniversary Edition) or that is nearly impossible?

 

this summer I'm planning on taking a course to learn how to produce with Dolby Atmos so if I stop procrastinating and get to it, i'll have answers soon :P

I will say this about Dolby Atmos, it seems like a much better fit for electronic and pop music. or maybe even just more recent music. I think they mixed this HT version as more of a straight rock album rather than the fusion it is. but more recent stuff i listened to like Blinding Lights by The Weeknd (this one specifically surprisingly sounded very fresh despite how overplayed this song is) and Your Power by Billie Eilish both sounded phenomenal, the latter of the two being an acoustic song with sparse electronics; almost the opposite of the former. i think whoever mixed this version of the record didn't know anything about it besides "linkin park rock band" and "apple told me to mix these rock albums" lol. I think anything ATS and beyond would probably really sound good in this format

 

EDIT: OH and also I just want to re-affirm this about my little review: I was not listening to it through a stereo source. I listened to it on older airpods before and some channels didn't even play because I was listening on a stereo device. the new airpod pros have Spatial Audio functionality that has the same 360 technology. if i am wrong feel free to tell me lmao i may very well be, here is more information. so as far as I am aware i DID use proper equipment and heard the mix as it is.

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On 6/18/2021 at 4:51 PM, Robrobbsen said:

pitched up vocal of Chester

dude I'm starting to believe that's why it's so hard to get hands on the multi. they've been strict about those to prevent people from knowing that producing technique to make such amazingly strong vocals.
or
they just treated the vocals on the 5.1 release like some sounds on CFTI

I find those tracks extremely weird to listen to, they sound so heavily different

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1 hour ago, LPsMart said:

dude I'm starting to believe that's why it's so hard to get hands on the multi. they've been strict about those to prevent people from knowing that producing technique to make such amazingly strong vocals.
or
they just treated the vocals on the 5.1 release like some sounds on CFTI

I find those tracks extremely weird to listen to, they sound so heavily different

 

Well according to me these are the different versions of HT

 

1 Original 

2 Unmastered 

3 Dolby Atmos

 

if you want to count the mastered for iTunes that would be 4.

 

I love the Unmastered version.

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, martinez said:

Fundamental question: is it possible that they have a stems of all 80 tracks from Hybrid Theory (20th Anniversary Edition) or that is nearly impossible?

I see no other way to mix it,or at least all the stems that the band has. If I´m not wrong since the atmos channels are like little submixes, yout can´t cleanly take out drums from a track, maybe there is such technology but that would probs not work on songs that are packed that tight like LP productions are. Then its also a release by a huge band I don´t think they would do half measures in that regard. 

Worst case would be the songs that just have no stems anymore since they lost them or whatever just won´t have Atmos verisons.

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7 hours ago, Robrobbsen said:

I see no other way to mix it,or at least all the stems that the band has. If I´m not wrong since the atmos channels are like little submixes, yout can´t cleanly take out drums from a track, maybe there is such technology but that would probs not work on songs that are packed that tight like LP productions are. Then its also a release by a huge band I don´t think they would do half measures in that regard. 

Worst case would be the songs that just have no stems anymore since they lost them or whatever just won´t have Atmos verisons.

I'm pretty sure they don't even have all the original stems themselves. e.g. Reading My Eyes was a direct remaster from a 1-track-tape.

about the technology: what I've learned about how AI treatment does shit is shocking. you could even like extract single instruments from RME but still.. there's a difference between stems and deconstructed stems (even though the quality has increased alot over the last year.) If you're interested in deconstructing songs I suggest you getting a free trial of izotope's RX8.

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3 minutes ago, LPsMart said:

I'm pretty sure they don't even have all the original stems themselves. e.g. Reading My Eyes was a direct remaster from a 1-track-tape.

about the technology: what I've learned about how AI treatment does shit is shocking. you could even like extract single instruments from RME but still.. there's a difference between stems and deconstructed stems (even though the quality has increased alot over the last year.) If you're interested in deconstructing songs I suggest you getting a free trial of izotope's RX8.

I have RX8 but there are still artefacts when extracting, the more instruments the more artefacts. IMO thats something we can do to play around with or make remixed but not something for an official release from the band. I would love to hear from someone who was heard some of the older tracks in Atmos. Stuff like RME wasn´t even recorded properly too there is no way you can filer all the necessary Tracks out of a single stereo file. 

RX8 can do stuff we dind´t believe a few year ago, but if I try to filter out the voice of a densly produced track its still sounding filtered out. You can maybe get a presentable Acapella out of a track, but never a good drum track or single guitar track. 

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40 minutes ago, Robrobbsen said:

not something for an official release from the band

George Martin and Crew actually did that for The Beatles' 1, Love and the RB game, with technology we would never had believed to exist back then

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4 hours ago, LPsMart said:

George Martin and Crew actually did that for The Beatles' 1, Love and the RB game, with technology we would never had believed to exist back then

I don´t know anything about the software they used but I cartainly can´t ge Clean Drums out of any software like RX8 the more Overheads the more it gets that underwater filter like sound, if they would go for that kind of low tech approach instead of just leaving the tracks without masters out then its just shoddy. HT itself sounds totaly fine and I´m sure the tracks with the multitracks available will too. 

 

But the second problem comes from how I found out they mixed HT for this release if we take Papercut for example 

The center track contains Lead vocals,Bass some synths and The Kick, Snare, the Hihat mics and the two sampled beats that run troughout most of the song. The Drum Overheads and room mics are on the first two Channels. You can maybe with everything you got get a somewhat usable drum track, no software I heard of can split a Drum bus into its elements again. Let alone decipher a samples beat from what counts as overheads for example. 

 

I´m no beatles fan but I´m guessing in the early stages they used Max 2 guitar tracks, 1 bass, 2 or 3 vocal tracks and maybe a stereo drum track. Like I said in a previous post the more tracks the session got the more problem then to happen with filtering software. RX works great if you have a simple track with just Drums bass guitar and Vocals. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/1/2021 at 12:46 AM, Robrobbsen said:

the more Overheads the more it gets that underwater filter like sound

yeah I feel that, I know it's not perfect and it's annoying - but patience - audio engineering has improved so fast

 

 

On 7/1/2021 at 12:46 AM, Robrobbsen said:

2 guitar tracks, 1 bass, 2 or 3 vocal tracks and maybe a stereo drum track

yeah seems about right (even though no stereo drums) - but everything was mixed before tracking it onto a 1-track-machine, you can hear the quality has suffered when listening to each individual track but altogether no glitches are notable.

 

On 7/1/2021 at 12:46 AM, Robrobbsen said:

no software I heard of can split a Drum bus into its elements again. Let alone decipher a samples beat from what counts as overheads for example

naaah definitely not. but I'm both excited and anxious about the future and what's to come

Edited by LPsMart
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7 hours ago, LPsMart said:

 

 

naaah definitely not. but I'm both excited and anxious about the future and what's to come

Thats true, we are going straight into a future where all the stuff I mentioned is easily possible with one mouse click. If not more.

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  • 3 weeks later...
11 hours ago, cesaraugusto said:

Any chance to rip those files in .FLAC?

 

These streaming Atmos mixes are encoded in a lossy .m4a container, so FLAC would be a transcode. Specs match what's in the photo lpliveusername posted.

 

The files are floating around in certain parts of the internet where once might request rips, however. It's not sourced from Apple Music, I think, since the beginning of "Forgotten" is in tact. Would be cool to try and convert it and build a DVD-R type thing for a more traditional 5.1 system, kind of like Reanimation.

 

For any Mac using producer type folks here: I played around with the files and discovered they'll drop right into Logic without conversion and you can mess around with panning and split the tracks there.

Edited by letdownagain
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