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Hahninator

Review: "Cross Off" - Mark Morton featuring Chester

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Phenomenal performance by Chester here. He sounds right at home on this heavy metal track. While I do think the instrumental itself is super generic metal, Chester's vocals immediately elevate the song into something special. He remains to be dearly missed.

 

 

The Hunting Party wasn't really that heavy. It was more like what people considered ''heavy'' back in the 1980's and very early 1990's. Hard rock and metal has evolved so much in the late 1990's, 2000's and now 2010's that a lot of people had a different expectation for The Hunting Party, myself included. It came out halfway through the 2010's decade and by that time, like I said, hard rock and metal was just much different. It has a few heavy songs that I liked, such as War (best song on the album by far) and Keys To The Kingdom (but the whole song wasn't heavy). It also had a lot of slower stuff like Until It's Gone, Drawbar, Final Masquerade, The Summoning, that's 4 tracks of that right there, a quarter of the album. Heavy also doesn't mean just instrumentally, there's a reason why virtually every metal and hard rock band features vocals akin to the style of Cross Off. The Hunting Party also had A LOT of Mike vocals so it was also kind of different. Another thing to note too is that while The Hunting Party had heavy-ish moments, they were for a very brief time in the song, the entire song didn't stay heavy most of the time, like Cross Off, etc. It could be due to the fact that Rob and Brad can't really play true metal and hard rock because it is hard to do, I don't think Linkin Park was ever equipped to be that heavy. The drummer in DBS, Elias, was a much better drummer than Rob, like Chester said in JK's EPK, ''they found one of the best drummers in the world''. And it's no surprise that Amir Derakh is much more advanced at playing guitar over Brad. DBS had a rock sound like that on many tracks and they were capable. Mark Morton is from Lamb Of God, which is even more advanced. The lyrics were also SUPPPERRR bland on The Hunting Party. It just felt like a very uninspired album to me. And Mike forced the rest of the band besides Chester to make the style of the album, they didn't even want to do it.

 

I'd say the heaviest Linkin Park tracks of their entire discography are probably Given Up, No More Sorrow, Qwerty, Victimized, War. Victimized I actually consider heavier than the entire album of The Hunting Party. Even just Chester's screams alone on Lost In The Echo were heavier than any vocal on The Hunting Party.

 

 

Why do LP fans always feel the need to obsess over how much they dislike a specific album in every single thread anywhere when its not really warranted in the discussion? The Hunting Party was the heaviest Linkin Park had been in a decade, and far heavier than anything on mainstream rock radio in that time span. The band was never trying to compare themselves to 2010 metal bands because, as you kind of slightly acknowledged, the album was a love letter to 80's & 90's thrash metal.

 

Honestly, I would strongly disagree with just about everything in your opinion. You say four songs from The Hunting Party are slower, but two of them are instrumentals, and The Summoning doesn't really fit the bill. Regardless it's a little over ten minutes on a 46 minute album. If anything, Mike interplayed with the album's "clean" vocals while Chester was pretty much always growling, shouting, or screaming... just like oh just about every other heavy song in the band's discography. Not sure what's so different about it?

 

Yes The Hunting Party ebbed and flowed between soft and heavy, but that does not take anything away from the record. That's like saying Metallica's Master of Puppets album isn't heavy because there's moments of respite spaced throughout. It was a conscious decision by the band, not because Brad or Rob can't really play "true metal". There's a reason Slayer's Reign in Blood, one of the most heralded metal albums of all time, is only 28 minutes long - because any longer would exhaust the average listener.

 

Lyrics are completely subjective so I won't go there, but the album wasn't written to relate to listeners. It was a retaliation against the stagnation of modern rock music and the industry as a whole. Not to mention I'm not sure what Mike's intentions on writing a record have anything to do with whether the album is heavy or not.

 

I would agree that Given Up and No More Sorrow are heavier than anything on Hybrid Theory and Meteora and are comparable to THP. Victimized on the other hand is far more loud and abrasive than it is heavy. To call it heavier than Keys to the Kingdom, Guilty All The Same, Rebellion, or A Line in the Sand is a joke at best.

 

This of course is all my two cents.

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It appears labels are screwing up and pushing the releases out early. Not sure why. Official release for this single is next month.

 

Would be nice if they filmed enough material in the studio to have a music video. Each member playing their parts, some clips of Chester singing. Some clips of them talking or writing down lyrics. Would be cool.

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Phenomenal performance by Chester here. He sounds right at home on this heavy metal track. While I do think the instrumental itself is super generic metal, Chester's vocals immediately elevate the song into something special. He remains to be dearly missed.

 

 

 

Why do LP fans always feel the need to obsess over how much they dislike a specific album in every single thread anywhere when its not really warranted in the discussion? The Hunting Party was the heaviest Linkin Park had been in a decade, and far heavier than anything on mainstream rock radio in that time span. The band was never trying to compare themselves to 2010 metal bands because, as you kind of slightly acknowledged, the album was a love letter to 80's & 90's thrash metal.

 

Honestly, I would strongly disagree with just about everything in your opinion. You say four songs from The Hunting Party are slower, but two of them are instrumentals, and The Summoning doesn't really fit the bill. Regardless it's a little over ten minutes on a 46 minute album. If anything, Mike interplayed with the album's "clean" vocals while Chester was pretty much always growling, shouting, or screaming... just like oh just about every other heavy song in the band's discography. Not sure what's so different about it?

 

Yes The Hunting Party ebbed and flowed between soft and heavy, but that does not take anything away from the record. That's like saying Metallica's Master of Puppets album isn't heavy because there's moments of respite spaced throughout. It was a conscious decision by the band, not because Brad or Rob can't really play "true metal". There's a reason Slayer's Reign in Blood, one of the most heralded metal albums of all time, is only 28 minutes long - because any longer would exhaust the average listener.

 

Lyrics are completely subjective so I won't go there, but the album wasn't written to relate to listeners. It was a retaliation against the stagnation of modern rock music and the industry as a whole. Not to mention I'm not sure what Mike's intentions on writing a record have anything to do with whether the album is heavy or not.

 

I would agree that Given Up and No More Sorrow are heavier than anything on Hybrid Theory and Meteora and are comparable to THP. Victimized on the other hand is far more loud and abrasive than it is heavy. To call it heavier than Keys to the Kingdom, Guilty All The Same, Rebellion, or A Line in the Sand is a joke at best.

 

This of course is all my two cents.

 

The vocals on The Hunting Party were much different than any other vocals in the band's discography. Listen to Chester's screaming and aggressive vocals on Hybrid Theory, Meteora, Minutes To Midnight, A Thousand Suns and even Living Things. He sounded different. The vocals on The Hunting Party were almost too raw and unrefined. I guess that could be an issue that I have with the album is that I hate the mixing/mastering of the record. I don't like the way the guitar sounds, the drums sound, or the vocals. But even beyond that, I just don't like the songs all that much. I would say that the tracks that I enjoy are KTTK, War and ALITS. I used to love ALITS a lot but over time, it's got a bit boring for me. KTTK is a pretty solid jam but I'm not a huge fan of the Mike vocals in the song and I really don't like the outro with the little kid screaming. I know Mike's intention with the song was to quote on quote ''kind of just fuck you up'' and be jarring, but it's almost overkill to me. The song has no structure at all besides the chorus. War is just a solid song, I actually like that song. The guitar solo is extremely badass and Chester's vocals are some of his best aggressive vocals ever. But that's one track.

 

The reason that I mentioned The Summoning and Drawbar is because even though they are instrumentals and short, they still take up a slot on the album. For a 12 song album, taking up a slot for something like The Summoning just seems crazy to me. Foreword was annoying too on Meteora but they still gave us a 12 song album and didn't sacrifice a song for it. Same with Empty Spaces and a few of the other interludes on A Thousand Suns, they gave us a 15 song album. Drawbar was also kind of a waste IMO. Nobody in the world would guess Tom Morello was featured on the song if you didn't tell them. I don't think he even did anything on that studio recording because if you watch the making of video for it, it seems like his parts were kept out of the final recording. I don't have as much of an issue with Drawbar as I do The Summoning, though. LP always gave us an instrumental track but I just feel like a better one could have been chosen for the album over Drawbar. Personal preference.

 

Until It's Gone was a slower song that was actually written for Transformers 4, but Transformers 4 went with Imagine Dragons song instead. It should have been kept off of The Hunting Party and perhaps given to us through LPU as a demo or something. It doesn't fit at all with the rest of the album in terms of sound and the lyrics are horrible. I've seen MANY fans agree with these statements about the song. Again, personal preference.

 

Final Masquerade is actually a decent song, and it definitely has an alternative rock feel to it, it fits with the album. I don't mind that one.

 

At the end of the day, I just am not a big fan of the album. It's definitely my least favorite album by the band. I don't even know if it's because I think the songs are bad, I just really think it's a very boring and uninspired album. Like I said, there are a few songs that I hate but for the most part, it's just boring to me. The lyrics are all very boring to me. The instrumentals are. The vocals are. The mixing, I hate.

 

The band also seemed really uninspired with the album. Mike had to force Brad and Rob to get on board for a while at the start. They couldn't handle a lot of the songs live, or even recording them in the studio. I think a large part of it was not only because they were hard, but also because I don't think Brad and Rob's soul were in the songs. The band only played like 5 songs from the album. You could say the same for LT, but Mike has played RU and UIB now and the only songs now not to be played from LT are IBG, STB and Powerless. STB was featured instrumentally in a mashup and IBG was rehearsed.

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While I really like The Hunting Party and really appreciate what Mike tried to do there, I did expect a lot more from that album based on their commentaries before the album came out. I agree it wasn't that heavy and the thing that got me excited about Cross Off is that I finally got to hear Chester doing the kind of music I was hoping from The Hunting Party (or a follow up album). In terms of technique, the band had evolved a lot while recording The Hunting Party and I felt like One More Light was such a disappointment because I hoped the band would try to push themselves further. Anyway, back to The Hunting Party, like Geki said, Rob and Brad aren't metal musicians, they would never be able to handle a song like Cross Off (hell, they got hurt while playing The Hunting Party songs live) and Mike is the kind of guy who thinks every album needs a ballad every few songs and every song needs a slow part. Just read that interview where he is listening to Reign In Blood by Slayer and you'll see what I'm talking about. I guess it isn't even a fair comparison because the guys playing Cross Off (from Trivium and Lamb Of God) spent their entire careers playing this kind of music, so it's no wonder they delivered such a good product.

 

Rob and Brad are not metal musicians, because they're in a rock band. They're not top musicians, but they're good. They did a great job with THP. I didn't know they are able to play like that. THP has the best riffs in a whole LP catalog. A Line In The Sand, Mark The Graves, Rebellion or GATS...all fucking great songs. Drumming is also outstanding. I think they're more „at home“ if they play songs like No More Sorrow or Given Up, but like I said they did a great job with THP. What did you expect from THP? To be heavy like Death or Slayer? It was enough heavy for LP. How can you compare guys from Trivium (my favourite metal band ever) or Lamb Of God to LP? They're playing metal all the time and they have unbelievable technical skills. That is another level of musicianship. LP guys are comparable to Papa Roach or Korn, but definitely not to metal masters like Metallica or Slayer.

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Rob and Brad are not metal musicians, because they're in a rock band. They're not top musicians, but they're good. They did a great job with THP. I didn't know they are able to play like that. THP has the best riffs in a whole LP catalog. A Line In The Sand, Mark The Graves, Rebellion or GATS...all fucking great songs. Drumming is also outstanding. I think they're more at home if they play songs like No More Sorrow or Given Up, but like I said they did a great job with THP. What did you expect from THP? To be heavy like Death or Slayer? It was enough heavy for LP. How can you compare guys from Trivium (my favourite metal band ever) or Lamb Of God to LP? They're playing metal all the time and they have unbelievable technical skills. That is another level of musicianship. LP guys are comparable to Papa Roach or Korn, but definitely not to metal masters like Metallica or Slayer.

I wouldnt even say they are in a rock band. Lol. One More Light was like Disney Radio pop with every track. Like pop music that little kids listen to type stuff. Living Things was like half rock. ATS wasnt rock. But I guess you are right cuz the majority of their albums are rock (HT, M, MTM, THP). But good point. They arent equipped to play metal. I like ATS and LT a lot but I wouldnt call them rock at all. It just comes down to Brad and Rob not really being able to play metal. Phoenix, not sure about him, you dont hear his bass anyways in anything besides like Given Up. He definitely seems like hes more into metal than Rob and Brad though. Chester of course he was the most metal but hes gone now. Mike is weird like he used to like heavy stuff but hes basically gone full pop and doesnt look like hes going back ever.

Edited by GarretLP

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Maybe THP would have been a better album if LP had gone with the style of Final Masquerade and wrote semi-heavy songs, but not the super heavy attempts at rock. I really like Final Masq a lot.

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Maybe THP would have been a better album if LP had gone with the style of Final Masquerade and wrote semi-heavy songs, but not the super heavy attempts at rock. I really like Final Masq a lot.

Minutes To Midnight 2?

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I wouldnt even say they are in a rock band. Lol. One More Light was like Disney Radio pop with every track. Like pop music that little kids listen to type stuff. Living Things was like half rock. ATS wasnt rock. But I guess you are right cuz the majority of their albums are rock (HT, M, MTM, THP). But good point. They arent equipped to play metal. I like ATS and LT a lot but I wouldnt call them rock at all. It just comes down to Brad and Rob not really being able to play metal. Phoenix, not sure about him, you dont hear his bass anyways in anything besides like Given Up. He definitely seems like hes more into metal than Rob and Brad though. Chester of course he was the most metal but hes gone now. Mike is weird like he used to like heavy stuff but hes basically gone full pop and doesnt look like hes going back ever.

Are you really LP fan? You sound like metal elitist. What LP play in your opinion? Jazz?They consider themselves as a rock band. OML is definitely not Disney pop. Whole album is soft, but it doesn't mean it's full pop. There is some indie rock,indie folk, synthpop etc. ATS is electronica/alternative/rock. LT is pretty much same, but it's more hooky. None of the band members is metalhead. Brad grew up on thrash metal, but he likes more alternative and rock stuff. Rob is definitely more into jazz and rock. Phoenix..It's hard to say and Mike? He is a rap dude at first, but he loves everything. You know that. And he's gone full pop? LOL. K. Flay, Grandson or Phantogram is definitely not pop music.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwOOpWGwWwg time 6:30

Edited by FromTheInside

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Are you really LP fan? You sound like metal elitist. What LP play in your opinion? Jazz?They consider themselves as a rock band. OML is definitely not Disney pop. Whole album is soft, but it doesn't mean it's full pop. There is some indie rock,indie folk, synthpop etc. ATS is electronica/alternative/rock. LT is pretty much same, but it's more hooky. None of the band members is metalhead. Brad grew up on thrash metal, but he likes more alternative and rock stuff. Rob is definitely more into jazz and rock. Phoenix..It's hard to say and Mike? He is a rap dude at first, but he loves everything. You know that. And he's gone full pop? LOL. K. Flay, Grandson or Phantogram is definitely not pop music.

 

time 6:30
Sorry...but OML is a full blown pop record. Theres nothing rock or alternative about it. Its as radio friendly and generic as it gets. Its the record they chose to make. I personally hate it, but there are millions of people who like it, and I get that. But to claim its not a pop record is just crazy.

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Sorry...but OML is a full blown pop record. Theres nothing rock or alternative about it. Its as radio friendly and generic as it gets. Its the record they chose to make. I personally hate it, but there are millions of people who like it, and I get that. But to claim its not a pop record is just crazy.

OML is the worst LP album. I agree. It's a pop record in a way that every song can be a radio single, but it doesn't mean it's Taylor Swift album. Mike said in some interview that couple songs have Depeche Mode and Tears For Fears vibe. Anyway, what genre is Talking To Myself or Nobody Can Save Me in your opinion? TTM sounds like something from The Killers and NCSM is like new LOATR.

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I don't know if OML is worse than THP. Really hard to decide on that. I like OML a lot more now than when it first came out.

THP is definitely worse than OML. In my opinion. OML, there are a few songs on the album that I really like. It also has grown on me considerably since it came out as a whole. But I still don’t think it’s the greatest thing ever. At least I’m not bored when I listen to it. And I like a lot of the lyrics. THP, I fall asleep when listening to. It’s so boring. It doesn’t capture my interest at all. It isn’t heavy to me. I listen to tons of heavy music and THP is almost like a pop record in comparison to that stuff. I also just don’t really like any of the lyrical content on THP. It’s extemely bland to me and a lot of it is just words for the sake of words. IMO. The guest spots on THP were pointless, the band could have done them all themselves. At least the guest spots on OML provided something to the track. Not a huge fan of Kiiara and I wish Chester had sang the entire track, but she did bring a super pop element to the song way more by adding her vocals. Pusha T and Stormzy were both good on Good Goodbye, IMO. I just really don’t like THP much. Final Masquerade could have been a cool sound for the record. A track like Wastelands worked well for me, for that ‘’heavy’’ sound they were looking for. I think more tracks like that and Final Masquerade would have made for a better record. I think they tried to do a bunch of styles on the record that the rest of the band besides Mike and Chaz weren’t comfortable with. It feels like a really uninspired album to me.

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THP is definitely worse than OML. In my opinion. OML, there are a few songs on the album that I really like. It also has grown on me considerably since it came out as a whole. But I still don’t think it’s the greatest thing ever. At least I’m not bored when I listen to it. And I like a lot of the lyrics. THP, I fall asleep when listening to. It’s so boring. It doesn’t capture my interest at all. It isn’t heavy to me. I listen to tons of heavy music and THP is almost like a pop record in comparison to that stuff. I also just don’t really like any of the lyrical content on THP. It’s extemely bland to me and a lot of it is just words for the sake of words. IMO. The guest spots on THP were pointless, the band could have done them all themselves. At least the guest spots on OML provided something to the track. Not a huge fan of Kiiara and I wish Chester had sang the entire track, but she did bring a super pop element to the song way more by adding her vocals. Pusha T and Stormzy were both good on Good Goodbye, IMO. I just really don’t like THP much. Final Masquerade could have been a cool sound for the record. A track like Wastelands worked well for me, for that ‘’heavy’’ sound they were looking for. I think more tracks like that and Final Masquerade would have made for a better record. I think they tried to do a bunch of styles on the record that the rest of the band besides Mike and Chaz weren’t comfortable with. It feels like a really uninspired album to me.

I agree. Some of the songs on THP felt a little forced. To me, THP is the only LP album that felt like a style swerve just for the sake of having a style swerve. Even the transition from MTM to ATS felt more organic than what THP was.

 

OML to me feels more like the next step after LT honestly. THP in hindsight sounds like a detour more than an evolution.

 

That's not to say THP doesn't have some great songs on it. It definitely does. I just like OML more as a complete record.

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I agree. Some of the songs on THP felt a little forced. To me, THP is the only LP album that felt like a style swerve just for the sake of having a style swerve. Even the transition from MTM to ATS felt more organic than what THP was.

 

OML to me feels more like the next step after LT honestly. THP in hindsight sounds like a detour more than an evolution.

 

That's not to say THP doesn't have some great songs on it. It definitely does. I just like OML more as a complete record.

 

Well, Mike said they were writing straight up pop songs after LT, but somewhere in the process, Mike decided that he wanted to write heavy rock songs instead, and they then basically scrapped that pop album and started work on The Hunting Party (or what would become The Hunting Party). So OML basically is the next step after LT, because we probably would have got a very similar album to OML if they had just continued on without Mike scrapping the songs and making heavy rock songs. THP basically was a detour. If you remember all the interviews and stuff from the time, Mike said that he felt like rock had become too ''Disney'' and ''pop'' and he didn't like it, which prompted him to write those style of songs. And Mike also has said that the only other member who was on board right away was Chester, and it took a while for him to convince Brad and the rest of the band to write songs for The Hunting Party. That's why I say it felt forced or uninspired. Each of the band's albums, they have done what they want, whatever style it is. But for THP, Mike basically forced the style of the album. I mean it's fine because Mike is/was the nucleus of Linkin Park, and Chester generally always supported whatever Mike wanted, as seen in many making of's, etc. During the making of Welcome, Mike asked what he should do with the song, is it FM or LP, etc. and Chester was like ''I say do whatever you want to do buddy, it's whatever you want''. Seems like Brad really didn't want to make THP, or Rob, etc. But they ended up making it and I'm sure they got on board at some point. It just seems like it was a very ''living in the now'' type of thing and by the time it ended up coming out in June 2014, I feel like the band was kind of over the idea. Keep in mind, the band started writing the rock songs starting in September of 2013, there was an interview with Chester from a STP show in September 2013, where he was joined by Richard of Filter, and he said Mike started writing these super heavy metal songs and wanted to go that way, and Richard asked Chester if they wanted to do a heavy record and Chester said yeah, they were going to do one. June 2014 was a long time after that and if you watch videos and stuff from the tour for THP in 2014-2015, Brad looks SUPER uninterested in the songs from THP, yet he danced around on COG, BID, etc. And they kept saying they wanted to play the songs from THP live, etc. and they ended up playing only 5, and ALITS didn't even get debuted until like May of 2015. LOL. And UIG was only played in full for the very first part of the tour, it got cut in half for Carnivores and then wasn't even played at all in 2015. Rebellion was dropped from the set a lot in 2015 and GATS was dropped basically for all of 2015 (minus the 3 shows in Jan) because ''Rob couldn't handle it'', or maybe it was Brad. But Mike said it was one of them that couldn't handle it. Just feels like they didn't care much for THP at all. I think at first, in September/October/November of 2013, Mike was super into making those heavy rock songs, but by the time 2014 came around and all the way in June, he was probably even over it. Just seems like it. And the band focused literally more on the Steve Aoki collab of DTB than they did for all of THP's promotion. LOL.

Are you really LP fan? You sound like metal elitist. What LP play in your opinion? Jazz?They consider themselves as a rock band. OML is definitely not Disney pop. Whole album is soft, but it doesn't mean it's full pop. There is some indie rock,indie folk, synthpop etc. ATS is electronica/alternative/rock. LT is pretty much same, but it's more hooky. None of the band members is metalhead. Brad grew up on thrash metal, but he likes more alternative and rock stuff. Rob is definitely more into jazz and rock. Phoenix..It's hard to say and Mike? He is a rap dude at first, but he loves everything. You know that. And he's gone full pop? LOL. K. Flay, Grandson or Phantogram is definitely not pop music.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwOOpWGwWwg time 6:30

 

I don't think that they play ''jazz''. I said that I don't consider ATS, LT or OML to be ''rock'' albums. I did say that the majority of their albums were rock, though, HT, M, MTM and THP. 4 out numbers 3.

 

OML is definitely a pop record. Maybe I shouldn't have said Disney because I know it offends some people. Wasn't Heavy literally nominated for something by Disney? Anyways, it is a pop record, there is no questioning it. You mention some of the songs being indie rock, indie folk and synth pop. You must be referring to TTM and Sharp Edges for the indie ones. Yeah, they have somewhat of that indie type of quality, but play them next to songs by The Lumineers, Mumford & Sons, etc. They sound way more pop. What song would you say is synthpop on OML? SFN possibly? Other than that, can't see one fitting that genre. Even with these few songs, the majority of the album is still pop. Now, I don't even hate OML entirely. There are some great songs on the album such as NCSM (I consider it one of the band's best songs), BS, OML, etc. But I will still call it a pop record because it is and the band knew that. Not sure why you brought up K.Flay, grandson or Phantogram since they aren't relevant to OML at all. I mean they did make a song with K.Flay for OML (MIAIG) but it was never finished for the album back then and it was almost an entirely different song in that form.

 

ATS is basically experimental electronic alternative, that's the best genre I could come up with for it. I don't think many people would call A Thousand Suns a rock record. LT is basically electronic alternative, it definitely has more rock attitude than ATS, but it's still not really what I would consider a rock record.

 

At the end of the day, Linkin Park is basically a rock band who has experimented with many genres. But they aren't a rock band in the same way that a band like Korn or Slipknot or Breaking Benjamin or Three Days Grace, etc. are a rock band. You get what I'm saying? And they certainly aren't comparible to metal bands. My entire argument was that Brad, Rob and Phoenix aren't really quipped to play or handle extreme metal or hard rock songs.

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I don't see how anyone can say OML isn't a pop album. Pop is a pretty wide spectrum and it isn't an inherently negative term. I could see an argument for calling ATS and LT rock to an extent (not traditional rock, but some sub genre or something), but OML is 100% a pop album.

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Chester said something on Twitter last year about Until It's Gone being some sort of political move the band had to do, like WBR maybe wanted it on the album or something. Or maybe that is why they felt like they had to play it live. Who knows.

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The Hunting Party was the heaviest Linkin Park could have done without entering metal or metalcore territory, it works as a great heavy rock album with some alternative metal songs in it. Now I think it's a total waste of time trying to stick one single genre on an album that has songs like Waiting For The End, The Messenger, Burning In The Skies, When They Come For Me, etc all in one album. There is no genre to ATS, it's purposely done to sound like a genre orgy. And even if some albums are "not rock albums", all of them have rock songs, even OML with Nobody Can Save Me and Talking To Myself.

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The Hunting Party was the heaviest Linkin Park could have done without entering metal or metalcore territory, it works as a great heavy rock album with some alternative metal songs in it. Now I think it's a total waste of time trying to stick one single genre on an album that has songs like Waiting For The End, The Messenger, Burning In The Skies, When They Come For Me, etc all in one album. There is no genre to ATS, it's purposely done to sound like a genre orgy. And even if some albums are "not rock albums", all of them have rock songs, even OML with Nobody Can Save Me and Talking To Myself.

 

I agree with this. However, I feel like a lot of fans were expecting THP to be in the metal genre. The way that Mike and the rest of the band talked about the album, it was heavily implied. I guess that for Linkin Park, it was a heavy album, but it's certainly not as heavy as a lot of other music that existed at the same time that the album was written and released. I feel like maybe if The Summoning, Until It's Gone and Drawbar all were replaced with other rock songs, the album would have been better. Those are the 3 tracks that I have an issue with, with I talked about in a previous post, and I know that 2 of those are instrumental/interlude tracks but they still take up an entire slot of the tracklisting, when an album has 12 tracks, each track slot is integral to the album. I do agree that they don't always do a full genre for each album, but OML was a pop album, plain and simple, it is what it is. TTM, I guess you could say is rock, but it's as close to pop as a rock song can ever get. TMM and Sharp Edges have rock roots but they are basically pop songs. NCSM isn't a rock song, IMO, it's more of like an alt. pop type of sound. You can have slower songs, like Final Masquerade, or What I've Done, etc. that are definitely rock songs, even though they're slow.

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I agree with this. However, I feel like a lot of fans were expecting THP to be in the metal genre. The way that Mike and the rest of the band talked about the album, it was heavily implied. I guess that for Linkin Park, it was a heavy album, but it's certainly not as heavy as a lot of other music that existed at the same time that the album was written and released. I feel like maybe if The Summoning, Until It's Gone and Drawbar all were replaced with other rock songs, the album would have been better. Those are the 3 tracks that I have an issue with, with I talked about in a previous post, and I know that 2 of those are instrumental/interlude tracks but they still take up an entire slot of the tracklisting, when an album has 12 tracks, each track slot is integral to the album. I do agree that they don't always do a full genre for each album, but OML was a pop album, plain and simple, it is what it is. TTM, I guess you could say is rock, but it's as close to pop as a rock song can ever get. TMM and Sharp Edges have rock roots but they are basically pop songs. NCSM isn't a rock song, IMO, it's more of like an alt. pop type of sound. You can have slower songs, like Final Masquerade, or What I've Done, etc. that are definitely rock songs, even though they're slow.

 

Well, of course it wasn't as heavy as many other things, they would have to write death or black metal songs to get to that place, but it was the heaviest and rawest ever for Linkin Park as a collection of songs. I believe you're overthinking The Summoning and Drawbar, they probably wouldn't replace them with full songs anyway. The fact is that THP has lots of songs that are longer than the average LP radio hit so it makes up for these short tracks in terms of the album length. Intros and interludes aside, there are more full songs in THP than in ATS. I'd call TTM and NCSM alt/electronic rock, it's nothing they haven't done before except maybe for the clapping sounds. It's the mixing that gives it a pop feeling, turn the guitar volume up and more than half of OML fits into Living Things. Sharp Edges is their folkiest song though, it's very reminiscent of Three Band Terror and Devil's Drop, that folky vibe to where Living Things almost went but they intentionally avoided.

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Living Things is an A+ album for me, its my second favorite album by the band next to Minutes To Midnight. I wouldnt have minded if the album went to a folkier sound like Sharp Edges, but I am happy that Living Things came out like it did, I love that album like I said. Sharp Edges also has an EDM style beat that kicks in mid song, so its almost like that Folky/EDM music that was popular around 2012/2013 like Wake Me Up by Avicii for example. But thats besides the point. I dont only listen to heavy music. I love metal and rock but I listen to a lot of different kinds of music more. I just dont think THP was as heavy as it was sold off to be, and I definitely think LP could have went heavier if they had wanted. Hell, QWERTY and Given Up/No More Sorrow and songs like that are heavier than pretty much anything on The Hunting Party. I get that you probably love THP and thats why youre defending it so much and thats great. I defend my favorite albums too. Im glad that each album by the band has people who love them individually. I just personally dont love THP. Its still a record by my favorite band so I like it more than most music but compared to other LP albums, its not my favorite. And for a 12 song album, I do think taking up two track slots was crazy. Maybe thats just me. A reworked White Noise would have even been better on the album. And Mike said they wrote like 60 songs for THP. Im sure there were a few more completed that were good, heavy songs. Until Its Gone was never intended for the album, it was written for Transotmers 4 but the film didnt want to use the song. Its a garbage song IMO. I know some people like it. Idk. It doesnt fit with the rest of THP even remotely. Next to Final Masquerade even, Final Masquerade is a rock song. UIG is similar to like New Divide and some of LT. The lyrics are horrible in UIG. It just shouldnt have been on the record.

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I guess it's more of a logic disagreement than a favourite album war, cause I honestly can't choose a favourite one. I just don't think those 3 songs are as heavy as War, Mark the Graves, Rebellion or A Line in the Sand. Maybe No More Sorrow could kinda fit on the same level, but Given Up only gets quite heavy in the bridge and QWERTY is basically a new metal song. Of course it has lots of screaming and it's a classic loved by everyone but to my ears new metal songwriting is not as heavy as more complex drumming and heavy metal-ish guitar solos, no matter how many times you layer the guitars to make it sound fuller. And I actually prefer albums with less songs, ATS is alright only because 6 of the 15 tracks are intros and interludes. Supposing they released THP with the 10 other tracks(no Drawbar and The Summoning) it would still be outmatched in total time only by ATS and MTM, so the amount of tracks is unimportant when you have longer ones. But I agree UIG sounds a lot like Living Things because it has that electronic rock feeling, it's like Living Things with a slightly trickier guitar riff and a little solo.

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I agree with Kilmer. Each album is really different. THP is the heaviest album, for sure. It's heavy and definitely enough agressive. I love this album. GarretLP, I don't know man, but you can't expect from Linkin Park heaviness like Suffocation or Behemoth. Besides Mike said THP was influenced by 90's rock and hardcore. Nu-Metal is simple on playing, but it can be heavy as other metal genres. Meteora is heavier than HT. You can hear it. Mike said at the time they wanted to be heavier on Meteora. Don't Stay or Figure 09 bridge? Heavy as fuck. Figure 09 demo is even heavier. Most brutal screaming from Chester ever. Since MTM every track on the albums is different from the next one, but each album includes rock songs. Yes, I count OML as well. Has anyone heard separate tracks from OML? Like guitar tracks? Guitars in Heavy and Battle Symphony sound great, but electronic sounds and mixing totally killed them. I definitely want more rock from LP in the future. I hope they're gonna recruit a new killer singer. I love Mike, but he's not a rock singer. I've thought about it like 100 times, but he's not able to sing like a rock singer. He can do his own shit (love PT), but not LP songs.

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