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Geki

MTM Realization

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Minutes To Midnight actually kind of sucks. I feel like all this time, I forced myself to like it, just because it was the first album cycle where I saw the band live, as well as other things.

In reality, it was when they ''changed their sound''. The world was talking about it; Linkin Park changing their sound. Anyone remember how big that was to people back in like 2006 when the band started saying that?

 

The album has a lot of cringe worthy moments. A lot of the songs are obvious attempts at creating a certain ''style'' or sound, and done very dramatically. The tour was made to appeal to every 13 to 17 year old at the time. It was all those huge emo bands that kids in those age ranges loved at the time. It was about getting big ticket sales. Were literally any of those bands on PR07, MTM Tour or PR08 even at the Chester tribute show? No. At least with prior tours, with bands like Korn and others, they were genuine friends with Chester. But I won't list all of those examples, it's besides the point.

 

They even used What I've Done from the album for Transformers, the biggest movie hit of 2007, totally selling out. And then Leave Out All The Rest from the album a year later with Twilight, I mean c'mon man...

 

Linkin Park is a band that should have probably died with 2004. We know that the band was burnt out by the end of the Meteora cycle in September of 2004. That's why they took such a long break. Starting in 2005, Mike and Chester formed new bands, Fort Minor and Dead By Sunrise, and made albums. Joe started making films (The Seed, etc.). Mike started getting back into painting and art full time, and even did his first Art Show in 2006 at a Museum. Brad started doing some small time A&R work. Joe directed music videos for other bands like Alkaline Trio, amongst others. Mike and Chester started doing a lot of guest spots on other artists albums and stuff, alongside Fort Minor and Dead By Sunrise. Chester formed his own clothing line with VeÇel. Just a lot of stuff happened. They also got into a huge dispute with their record label, wanting more money and control. Warner finally caved in and once they did, the band got back together to start working on Minutes To Midnight. I remember once reading Chester say in a Dead By Sunrise interview from 2009 something along the lines of ''Linkin Park got back together and we made a really good album, and now I'm finally putting this record out, which I've been working on since 2005, so it's nice to finally put it out there''. Makes me think that maybe he didn't know if Linkin Park would get back together after Meteora and he wasn't really close with the guys during that time. And bottom line, I just feel like they kind of lost their identity during the MTM time.

Edited by Geki

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MTM was your favorite album like a week agi, but okay.

It was a realization I had. I now just like Hybrid Theory and Meteora eras. You can’t deny that the band was in their prime then.

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Please just don't give up on me - MTM to Geki

 

It's just that, all songs on Hybrid Theory and Meteora kick the shit out of songs on MTM. Take a look at the ''heavy'' songs on MTM, Given Up and No More Sorrow. Are they as good as songs like OSC, APFMH, Faint, FTI, and others? Not to me. I used to love MTM a lot for a very long time. But I'd say within the past 5 months or so, it's become increasingly stale to me. I just don't vibe with the album as much as I used to, while I can throw on Hybrid Theory and Meteora and still rock the fuck out after all these years. Hybrid Theory and Meteora are in my DNA, and I think that's true for a lot of people.

 

 

The biggest flaws overall with MTM that I've come to notice are some of the songs. Let's go through the tracklisting.

 

Wake: A very pointless track, IMO. I always skip Wake when I listen to the album. Did it need to take up an entire spot in the tracklisting? You can argue that with Foreword on Meteora, but that's only 13 second and it's basically part of Don't Stay. Wake is it's own separate song and it's over a minute and a half long. Something like Qwerty, Across The Line, No Roads Left or countless other tracks that we probably don't even know about could have taken a slot on the album instead.

 

Given Up: It's probably the best song on the album, but still, it's not nearly as good as the heavier songs on Hybrid Theory and Meteora. And I kind of hate the lyrics, they are somewhat cringe worthy at times. I can't feel good when I'm driving and blasting this song, because I feel so lame. The fuck parts too were kind of unnecessary, and I always curse. I just think they were thrown in for the sake of the fact that the band never cursed in main album songs before, so they had to introduce that, because it was part of ''the change.''

 

Leave Out All The Rest: It's an OK song but the beat is a little corny. But I don't have much issue with it. It's definitely drastically different than the old school LP, though. I'm not gonna say it's boy band territory but it's very poppy.

 

Bleed It Out: Idk about this song. I used to like it. Then I hated it. Then I liked it again. Now I hate it again. It gets old after a while. The chorus is way too repetitive, saying the same line over and over. Chester sounds a little cheesy with the delivery, too. Mike's verses aren't bad. Some cool lines. Probably the closest to old school Linkin Park on the album, but still, it's really not, it's just structured as such.

 

Shadow Of The Day: People always say the band ripped off With Or Without You by U2 with this song, and it does sound like it, especially the intro. It's also extremely poppy, like Leave Out All The Rest. I always thought this song was very long and boring, I even walked out of the Hartford 2008 show during this song because it was just so boring to me. Puts me to sleep.

 

What I've Done: Used to be my favorite song, but it no longer is. It's very commercially driven, I mean hell, it was the theme song of Transformers, one of the most mainstream films of last decade. It was literally created for the sole purpose of having a big radio single. And it got boring over time. The band brought it back to life with recent tours, but it's still just boring now to me. Very radio driven, formulaic type of rock song. It's akin to stuff like Theory Of A Deadman, Nickelback, etc.

 

Hands Held High: I always hated the chorus. The verses have good lyrics, but that's about it. Overall, another boring song to me. It's not as bad as Shadow Of The Day. But yeah. I guarantee if you showed this song to someone in 2004 or 2000 or in between those years, they would have never guessed Linkin Park became this sound. So very different. It does come off as a little too preachy, but it's not too bad.

 

No More Sorrow: This was the band's attempt at trying to sound like Metallica on an album (the other time being Malathion off of LPU XIV). I mean, it's not bad, but it's very obvious, and kind of almost cheesy. The lyrics aren't that bad, and neither are Chester's vocals. It's one of the better songs on the album. I can see why they stopped playing it live after 2011, though. I would get annoyed performing it each night because it's so long and requires a lot, kind of like Guilty All The Same.

 

Valentine's Day: I don't hate this song, but it's poppy and slow. The lyrics are good and it's probably Chester's best vocal delivery on the entire album, IMO. The ''On a Valentine's Day'' line is a little cheesy but it's not as bad as some of the other lyrics on the album, because it can be used as a metaphor of sorts. The rest of the lyrics are good. I think it's kind of obvious that the band was going for an emo rock kind of approach with this song but it's not that bad.

 

In Between: A very indie sounding song. Sounds way different than the rest of the album, or even the band's discography, besides maybe The Last Line off of MALL. I've literally shown this song to a lot of people and asked them who they thought the artist was and every single one of them couldn't answer correctly. It does not sound anything like Linkin Park. As for the actual song, it's OK, but boring. Mike sings fine, it's just a really boring song.

 

In Pieces: I know it's about Chester's divorce, but the song is extremely overhyped. It's not that bad, but it's not as good as people act like it is. Live, the song sounds horrendous. Chester sounds fine on the studio version. The song gets old after a while. I like the beat that comes in with the beginning of the song. The guitar gets annoying after a lot of listens. But it's not a bad song, kind of weird, though. Another song that you wouldn't think is Linkin Park.

 

TLTGYA: The band's attempt at something huge, progressive and epic. It's not bad. It's hard to listen to the whole song every time, though.

 

Now, with the touring and stuff for the album, you can't tell me that they weren't trying to sell tons of tickets by featuring all those huge emo bands at the time like MCR, Taking Back Sunday, HIM, Coheed, Chiodos, Atreyu, Hawthorne Heights, etc. None of those bands really sounded similar to MTM, but that doesn't mean much. It just seems gimmicky. Of course the main goal is to sell tickets and get people to go, but it was catering very much towards the teenagers of the 2000's with all those huge emo bands, etc. A lot of them were cringe worthy as all hell when I look back at a lot of the bands that toured with them during the MTM era. I don't know how Chester, being 31/32 at the time, could honestly not think some were cringe worthy as fuck.

 

MTM opened the path to albums like ATS, LT and OML, but it doesn't really stand the test of time with me. It seems like an album that had no direction, like the band didn't know what they wanted to do at that time, so they just made a ton of songs and threw it together for an album. And the second half of the album really does get boring to casual listeners, after What I've Done, it gets weirdly experimental, but not in a cool way like with ATS.

Edited by Geki

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Saying they lost their identity on MTM is laughable. That’s when they found it

 

I beg to differ. You're probably one of those people who hates Hybrid Theory and Meteora but let's look past those albums. I'd say ATS was more so when they felt comfortable with themselves, because they could be experimental, but yet didn't need to to appeal to a mainstream, like they did with MTM. MTM was experimental for the band too, but it had huge radio rock songs backing it, along with big blockbuster hits using WID and LOATR. It also had those tours with MCR, Taking Back Sunday, HIM and all those bands that teens loved at the time. It was different. ATS had a much stranger touring cycle and brought bands on tour in the U.S. that most people who listen to mainstream rock would never have even heard of.

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Problem with MTM when I listened is it got boring it couldnt keep my attention so ye its kinda a weak album but I think its OK. Blackbirds is a killer track tho so is across the lien aswell as valentines day

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I agree MTM is awesome, great production, generally much better lyrics and an overall much more mature and varied sound. It still has some of that aggresssive edge though, Some of LP's best work, imo. And the live shows were amazing at that point, was fortunate enough to be at the PR MK show in 08, one of the best I've ever been to.

 

Loved the build up to it's release, loved it when it was first released, really dug the mv's and the touring cycle was epic. I will never change my mind on that era, it was fantastic.

 

I say this as someone who was a big fan of the HT and Meteora era too.

Edited by Alex

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When I first listened to MTM, it was indeed "different", I was still a teen around that time, so I didn't really "gather" what LP was trying to go for. But, as an adult now in his late 20's, I have to say the album makes A LOT more sense to me than it ever did. From the very first song, Wake to TLTGYA, I feel it tells a story of a person transforming themselves from their "older" self, into a newer version, "seeing the light" so to speak.

 

Wake = Awoken

Given Up = Gave Up on the old ways, sick of it.

LOATR = Saying goodbye to the old self

Bleed It Out = Talks about death a lot and being buried

Shadow = Leaving, avoiding the doom. The sun will set for you, if you want...

What I've Done = Remembering all the bad done and fixing it

No More Sorrow = Politics, how hypocritical they are (And continue to be)

Valentine's Day = Someone being laid to rest, don't know what to do with oneself.

In Between = Sorry for what you are hearing hurts you.

In Pieces = You told me to move on.

TLTGYA = No one wants to help.

 

The album, is completely about change of oneself. At least the way I see it. ATS is a whole different monster, and growing up, has become my favorite album to how deep it is. After HT and Meteora, i feel LP were trying to get a message forward. That went into a complete 360 with OML though.

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Biggest issue with MTM for me is the tracklist. They put the songs in an order so each song stood out from each other, but it really hurts the flow of the album. Heavy song, soft song, heavy song... and so on. I feel a re-arrange on the tracklist would help with the album greatly.

 

Here is my take

Wake

Given Up

What I've Done

Hands Held High

In Pieces

No Roads Left

No More Sorrow

Shadow Of The Day

In Between

Leave Out All The Rest

Bleed It Out

The Little Things Give You Away

 

 

No Valentines Day. My least favorite LP song. No Roads Left is way better and give Mike another song which he is lacking on MTM.

Edited by Monty96

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It's interesting because like you said, the tracklisting a lot of people actually complained about. Not just the way it was sequenced, which I know the band did intentionally according to Mike to give listeners jarring experiences from one song to the next, but also the songs that made the final album. Imagine if songs like Qwerty or Across The Line made the album. Even Blackbirds, or What We Don't Know. And that's just scraping the bottom of the barrel, they wrote upwards of 100+ songs for MTM, and got 30 of them to a finished form, then further narrowed it down to 17, and then to 12 (or 13 if you count NRL being on the Tour Edition). I bet some of those 30 songs were pretty cool and all had different styles. Like I said in my previous post, it just felt like MTM was the band not knowing what they wanted to do, what direction to go. It's obvious they didn't want to completely abandoned a heavy sound, since songs like Given Up and No More Sorrow made the cut, and they did make heavy songs throughout the process like Qwerty, Asbestos and more. They then went to make THP in 2014. But they also had some pop balladry on MTM, with songs like LOATR, SOTD, Valentine's Day, etc. Those songs fit with OML in a sense. Then you had the uber experimental weird shit like HHH, In Between, etc. that was like ATS in a way with the sense of just doing whatever. I think MTM was an album of ideas that the band wanted to maybe explore in the future. But with the test of time, it just doesn't hold up for me. If I want to listen to heavy LP after HT and Meteora, I'll throw on THP. If I want to listen to poppy emotional songs, I'll put on OML or LT. If I want weird stuff that sounds nothing like LP, I'll put on ATS. Some albums for me stand the test of time. There are albums that I liked when I was like 14 that I still adore to this day. And there is stuff that I loved in my mid to late teen's and even early 20's that I just fucking hate now. Sometimes I think to myself, how did I ever think this was so amazing? And that's how I feel often when listening through MTM.

 

I've also seen people saying the touring cycle was amazing. Idk. It was the first cycle that I ever got the chance to see the band play on, starting with Bamboozle 2007. I then saw them 3 times on PR07, twice on the MTM Tour and then twice on PR08. So a lot for that cycle. They were good enough shows but they aren't ''golden age LP'' to me. Stuff like PR04, Meteora Tour, Summer Sanitarium, PR02, Ozzfest, etc. You just simply cannot beat those tours and that time. Even though I didn't attend shows on those tours, I still listen to those tours and have loved them for many years. Some of the bands on the MTM touring cycle were cool but a lot of them were cheesy and gimmicky and bands that nowadays I'm just like ''oh God'', while I still rock out to the bands of the HT and Meteora touring cycles a lot, maybe it's just because that's where I got into music and the first music I ever liked were those nu-metal bands.

Edited by Geki

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They even used What I've Done from the album for Transformers, the biggest movie hit of 2007, totally selling out. And then Leave Out All The Rest from the album a year later with Twilight, I mean c'mon man...

 

Just a FYI, they were originally going to use In The Darkness by Dead By Sunrise in Twilight, but it would have meant they couldn't release it on Out Of Ashes, so Chester suggested LOATR. Let's also keep in mind the world was rather unaware of Twilight before the movies. Agreed that they had a following prior to the movie but it was the movie that made it mainstream.

Edited by Wilderness

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At first it was funny. Not anymore. Now you're just trying too hard, in other words, trolling for the sake of trolling. At least the HT/Meteora fanboys admit that they love their older stuff and call "shit" to everything they did after MTM, you're just straight up an attention whore that does this crap a lot lately, so, don't waste your time on this guy, he probably lost his mind or something.

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Just a FYI, they were originally going to use In The Darkness by Dead By Sunrise in Twilight, but it would have meant they couldn't release it on Out Of Ashes, so Chester suggested LOATR. Let's also keep in mind the world was rather unaware of Twilight before the movies. Agreed that they had a following prior to the movie but it was the movie that made it mainstream.

Where did he say that?

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I absolutely agree with you. You have right. And look at on producers. In HT and Meteora was Don Gilmore, but then... there is Rick Rubbin and I think he forced to band change like this. They changed their sound according to his idea.

 

Yeah I think LP and Don Gilmore worked well together for HT and Meteora. He really pushed them to make something great and even though the band said it was stressful, the final product was worth it, because those albums have stood the test of time and will go down in history. I don't really like Rick Rubin, he changed the band too much because he let them have too much freedom. Anyone remember what Corey Taylor said about Rick Rubin? He said he was the worst producer ever and he would never work with him again. He said Rick would literally come in and sit down with his sunglasses on and not move from the spot he was in and wouldn't even talk, etc. A producer is supposed to help refine the sound the band is going for on the album, and push them to achieve something. It's almost like the captain of a ship in a sense, to steer them. So idk. I think the band had a more specific type of sound they were going for on ATS and LT, same as THP and OML, but MTM was just all over the place, it had like 12 different genres in one album, it went nowhere, because ATS and LT and THP and OML sound nothing like MTM. MTM is the weird album out of the 7 because it has no direction, it was just mainstream rock hits, touring with super mainstream emo bands that would sell tickets for the teens going and weird experimentation that went no where.

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geki i get what ur saying but its prolly just cuz u listened to it way too much. agreed as MTM is my least favorite but lol, meteora use to be my favoirte but it got stale, i high key can fall asleep to HT and Meterora ive listened to em that much (IM not LYING, its happend around 20 times now when i listen to music at night with the lights turned off, one time even i accidently turned repeat on the music app and i had put the Hybrid Theory 6 track on their and was listening and I woke up the next day with one earphone in blasting the intro guittar of Dust Brother lmfao.)

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geki i get what ur saying but its prolly just cuz u listened to it way too much. agreed as MTM is my least favorite but lol, meteora use to be my favoirte but it got stale, i high key can fall asleep to HT and Meterora ive listened to em that much (IM not LYING, its happend around 20 times now when i listen to music at night with the lights turned off, one time even i accidently turned repeat on the music app and i had put the Hybrid Theory 6 track on their and was listening and I woke up the next day with one earphone in blasting the intro guittar of Dust Brother lmfao.)

 

That's funny because sometimes I'll actually throw on MTM, ATS, LT and OML when I'm going to sleep and I'll drift off. Because I think a majority of the songs are boring and radio-ish, but also because there are a lot of slow songs on those albums.

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We'll take care of him guys. If this thread gets anymore out of hand we'll have to lock it.

 

I feel like this entire thread is just "I'm going to say things so many times in an attempt to make myself believe what I'm saying is true."

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